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Thread: Philbin vs Sparano?

  1. -71
    Phinz1972's Avatar
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    You can pick good from Joe & Tony, but at same time take the bad and compare, if end result is the deciding factor then clearly Tony has the edge for many reasons, but since Joe's end hasn't come yet and only in year 3, kind of unfit to compare who was better.

    When Tony came to Miami, he was a O-Line coach that eventually got our line situated in terms of playing hard given the pieces Jeff got him. The big thing is, when Tony saw stuff wasn't working, he was open minded to try whatever for the win and listened when Henning brought the wildcat package, we got wins from it. His downsides were he played to for lack of better wording, scared when it came to taking chances on around 3rd and a few yards when within the opponents 35yrd line and usually settled for a field goal & fist pump. It went off the tracks record wise for him due to that near the end but you could tell he was a players coach.

    When Joe came, he was praised as a O-Cord that ran the west coast offense, but he took that over after a few years(I believe it was something like 4 years 07-11), so he walked into the role with good pieces in place, so he could run his style of the WCO from the get go, now compare that to coming into Miami HC role.. He stepped in and majority assumed he was going to be have us slinging the ball over the field, but he needed pieces for that(now that Lazor is here and may run something close to it, we are into year 3 of Joe getting his pieces to run this offense as he envisioned when he took the job i.e now that the foundation is there, let's see how the building compares to what Tony built here). The downside so far from Joe is, he seems to not be very much a players coach, more along the lines of a old school football coach approach to all business from otas till week 17), not saying players don't react to him, just it could have been a culture shock to those left over from Tony days. The biggest flaw that is now removed is, Joe doesn't have Sherman designing the plays and being stuck in ways of do it my way or not at all that Sherman always done since his so called golden days as a coach. So now we get to see what Joe and Lazor are building on Offense and how they can react halftime wise to their gameplan and changing/tweaking stuff on the fly instead of "ok running on 1st and 2nd down for 2 yards didn't work in the first half, bet it works the 2nd half".

    Not many want to hear it, but with installing Joe's offense and not Sherman's with Lazor playcalling and designing, we will likely need this year and the following to see how it pans out, but it's a win now league. If basing Tony's whole run as coach to Joe's heading into 3rd season, goes to Tony but still can see Joe has building and see where he wants to place it for all to see, just a question of is he allowed to finish the building process or does he get told nope sorry putting up a motel here instead and we repeat the cycle of swinging doors.
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  2. -72
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    Tannehill 17
Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Does Philbin force feeding the ZBS with guys that did not fit matter to anyone? IMO, Shula would have never allowed it.
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  3. -73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phinz1972 View Post
    You can pick good from Joe & Tony, but at same time take the bad and compare, if end result is the deciding factor then clearly Tony has the edge for many reasons, but since Joe's end hasn't come yet and only in year 3, kind of unfit to compare who was better.

    When Tony came to Miami, he was a O-Line coach that eventually got our line situated in terms of playing hard given the pieces Jeff got him. The big thing is, when Tony saw stuff wasn't working, he was open minded to try whatever for the win and listened when Henning brought the wildcat package, we got wins from it. His downsides were he played to for lack of better wording, scared when it came to taking chances on around 3rd and a few yards when within the opponents 35yrd line and usually settled for a field goal & fist pump. It went off the tracks record wise for him due to that near the end but you could tell he was a players coach.

    When Joe came, he was praised as a O-Cord that ran the west coast offense, but he took that over after a few years(I believe it was something like 4 years 07-11), so he walked into the role with good pieces in place, so he could run his style of the WCO from the get go, now compare that to coming into Miami HC role.. He stepped in and majority assumed he was going to be have us slinging the ball over the field, but he needed pieces for that(now that Lazor is here and may run something close to it, we are into year 3 of Joe getting his pieces to run this offense as he envisioned when he took the job i.e now that the foundation is there, let's see how the building compares to what Tony built here). The downside so far from Joe is, he seems to not be very much a players coach, more along the lines of a old school football coach approach to all business from otas till week 17), not saying players don't react to him, just it could have been a culture shock to those left over from Tony days. The biggest flaw that is now removed is, Joe doesn't have Sherman designing the plays and being stuck in ways of do it my way or not at all that Sherman always done since his so called golden days as a coach. So now we get to see what Joe and Lazor are building on Offense and how they can react halftime wise to their gameplan and changing/tweaking stuff on the fly instead of "ok running on 1st and 2nd down for 2 yards didn't work in the first half, bet it works the 2nd half".

    Not many want to hear it, but with installing Joe's offense and not Sherman's with Lazor playcalling and designing, we will likely need this year and the following to see how it pans out, but it's a win now league. If basing Tony's whole run as coach to Joe's heading into 3rd season, goes to Tony but still can see Joe has building and see where he wants to place it for all to see, just a question of is he allowed to finish the building process or does he get told nope sorry putting up a motel here instead and we repeat the cycle of swinging doors.
    I agree with all of this and would add that thanks to Ireland's ineptitude Philbin's transformation is probably a year behind where it could have been. It pisses me off that we squandered a great opportunity and with one or two key moves we very easily could have won the division and had a first round bye, at the very least it was a playoff team. On the other hand it all worked out brilliantly for me...Ireland and Sherman are gone and Philbin and Tannehill remain in tact. If Tannehill is the real deal I believe we have all the other pieces in place to get it done (obviously Hickey is an unknown but he can't be any worse).
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  4. -74
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    It should matter at the/whenever his end of coaching Miami is(not saying it doesn't factor in now, just kind of unfit to go ok Joe forced the zbs scheme and then compare it to list of what Tony did). Having said that, here's a question for you, if Tony wasn't handpicked by "THE BIG TUNA", would we as fans have put so much pressure on expecting nothing less then amazing from the product he put on the field? I don't think Tony was as bad as many made him out to be, he made do with what he had. I asked the question because I know there Joe lovers and Joe haters, I'm neither, I just don't want a revolving door of 4 year cycle of new coach, new system, etc and watching it over and over, so at the end of the day if Joe was picked by Tuna, would people see him more of a failure then a let's see the process play out or no because that is what he seemed to be like for Tony
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  5. -75
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    I still like the tuna so my hatred for Sparano has nothin to do with that. I think it comes down to personality types, I'm a very analytical person that rarely shows any outward emotion, which suits me well as a poker player, and Philbin is similar. Sparano was a fly by the seat of his pants nitwit. I have mad respect for Philbin's ability to almost always make the correct decision under pressure without wasting any time. I also appreciate the importance he places on not wasting timeouts and not taking stupid procedural penalties and false starts. I have all the confidence in the world that Philbin could handle the pressure of the superbowl. If Sparano was forced to decide between kicking a FG, punt or go for it on 4th and 2 from the opponents 38 yard line....

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  6. -76
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    I agree with all of this and would add that thanks to Ireland's ineptitude Philbin's transformation is probably a year behind where it could have been. It pisses me off that we squandered a great opportunity and with one or two key moves we very easily could have won the division and had a first round bye, at the very least it was a playoff team. On the other hand it all worked out brilliantly for me...Ireland and Sherman are gone and Philbin and Tannehill remain in tact. If Tannehill is the real deal I believe we have all the other pieces in place to get it done (obviously Hickey is an unknown but he can't be any worse).
    Hickey is going to live and die career wise attached to Joe given the contract he signed(I believe it was for remainder of Joe's time inked here), which isn't a bad thing. He came in and so far got Joe the players that Joe wanted(just look at who he wanted last year and instead Jeff opted to go for the save my job approach with sign big names in hopes of names alone would keep his job), so I'm sure it's safe to say Hickey and Joe have discussed their draft board over and over and played out so many things that could happen. If Joe is truly here for a min of 2 more years, with this FA period of getting players he wanted, a O-Cord that isn't sticking head in sand, a upcoming draft of coach and GM on same page, then repeat again next offseason, it should be a beautiful picture but we won't know if we continue to hold the doodle of finger painting Ireland made of this team and had Joe sign his name in corner to claim up in the air and saying look at this garbage Joe produced instead of allowing Joe, Lazor, Hickey to make their own piece with all the pieces they need to make it
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    Quote Originally Posted by roy_miami View Post
    I still like the tuna so my hatred for Sparano has nothin to do with that. I think it comes down to personality types, I'm a very analytical person that rarely shows any outward emotion, which suits me well as a poker player, and Philbin is similar. Sparano was a fly by the seat of his pants nitwit. I have mad respect for Philbin's ability to almost always make the correct decision under pressure without wasting any time. I also appreciate the importance he places on not wasting timeouts and not taking stupid procedural penalties and false starts. I have all the confidence in the world that Philbin could handle the pressure of the superbowl. If Sparano was forced to decide between kicking a FG, punt or go for it on 4th and 2 from the opponents 38 yard line....

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    I think a lot of Tony's indecision was the result of having a QB he didn't trust....he became conservative once he got in FG range because he didn't want Henne to throw the pick and not get any points, he tried to win with D...in his first yr he made all the right moves because he had a QB he could trust....his two biggest mistakes were not going to MM sooner and coaching scared once he was stabbed in the back....making in game decisions is not an easy thing, you have several issues going on at the same time, with everyone talking in your ear, some guys handle that better than others...so far Joe has done a good job, lets see how he reacts when he enters the win or get fired season coming this yr.....
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  8. -78
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    One thing I love about Philbin is when he's left with a tough decision he almost always chooses the most aggressive option. People liked Sparano's fire and passion but I think having trust in your players ability to perform, even with everything on the line, can be just as inspiring in its own right.
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  9. -79
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    Sporano was about as smart as a box of rocks.
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