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Thread: SI.com: Peter King's pre-draft notes and rumors

  1. -31
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    If you don't think 102 SOLO tackles is impressive, we're not going to agree on much.

    I disagree with all of your trait evaluations to varying degrees.

    Look at the combine weights of the best 4-3 OLB's and 3-4 ILB's over the last 10 seasons. He's bigger than many of the best, and even if you go back to Ray Lewis, he entered the NFL at right around 240. He's bigger than guys like Timmons, Washington, David.

    He has elite instincts around the LOS. As I said, he's one of the best LB's at shooting the gap I've ever seen. His instincts in space are a plus, but they're not as good. As a total package, his instincts are very good. And given his limited time at LB, there's still room for growth in that area.

    It's a huge exaggeration to say that he constantly over pursues. A player that makes 23.5 TFL is going to do it from time to time, and he does from time to time. But he makes the right read much more often than the wrong read. Again, hard to get 102 solo tackles (144 total, btw) when you're constantly guessing wrong.

    For a WLB, he's great at shedding blocks. You're not asking him to line up over the TE. But Shazier dealt with more O-lineman than any WLB that I can remember, and he was very productive in games where he was forced to deal with O-linemen play after play (see Michigan State).

    He had 10 PBU's as a Sophomore in addition to a pick-6. He played more around the LOS as a junior, but he can cover (especially in man), and he has crazy range. And if he's man on your RB, you better get that RB into a pattern, because he'll kill your QB.

    To say that he shows no physicality . . . how much have you watched? He's a violent LB.

    If you're paying attention (like to the post I just made), you'll read what he does well. Again, he has elite instincts around the LOS. Shoots gaps as well as anyone. He has the most insane closing speed I've ever seen from a LB. He can be playing 5 yards off the RB in man coverage, and in the blink of an eye, he's hitting the QB. He makes driving killing plays (7 sacks, 23.5 TFL, 4 FF), and he makes big-play-saving plays (102) solo tackles. His range is unreal.

    Your description fits a collegiate LB barely making it. I'm doing my best, but I can't think of another season where a player had 20+ TFL and 100+ solo tackles. If someone knows the list off hand or has access to it, I'd be interested in knowing its other members.

    I know he's no Bishop Sankey, but give the guy a break.
    "great at shedding blocks". In what world is he great at shedding blocks?

    He's has great instincts at shooting the gaps? You mean in a pre snap read or against the run? because post snap it's really not that impressive, and pre snap, would not be considered a instinct, that's a pre determined play determined by his coach.

    Why do you keep bringing up his tackles, is that all you got? You really want to go through how many linebackers in college get 100 tackles? You make it sound like he did it in the NFL.

    I don't care what his combine weight is, linebackers and defensive line players notoriously bring there weight up for combine. Tees agents spend a lot of $ bringing there weight up combine stats up.

    I look at shaziers game tape I see a skinny legged linebacker who will get ran over in the NFL. Seriously look how god damn skinny those legs are, game day that dude looks is in 220s, I guarantee it.

    If you want to draft undersized linebackers in the 1st rnd, be my guest, I'm against it, and don't care how explosive he is. Don't let the YouTube highlight tapes fool you, these undersized explosive guys get there ass handed to them in the NFL, 99% of the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXwarXx View Post
    "great at shedding blocks". In what world is he great at shedding blocks?

    He's has great instincts at shooting the gaps? You mean in a pre snap read or against the run? because post snap it's really not that impressive, and pre snap, would not be considered a instinct, that's a pre determined play determined by his coach.

    Why do you keep bringing up his tackles, is that all you got? You really want to go through how many linebackers in college get 100 tackles? You make it sound like he did it in the NFL.

    I don't care what his combine weight is, linebackers and defensive line players notoriously bring there weight up for combine. Tees agents spend a lot of $ bringing there weight up combine stats up.

    I look at shaziers game tape I see a skinny legged linebacker who will get ran over in the NFL. Seriously look how god damn skinny those legs are, game day that dude looks is in 220s, I guarantee it.

    If you want to draft undersized linebackers in the 1st rnd, be my guest, I'm against it, and don't care how explosive he is. Don't let the YouTube highlight tapes fool you, these undersized explosive guys get there ass handed to them in the NFL, 99% of the time.
    If you don't understand the concept of shooting a gap, and you don't understand it in the context of Ryan Shazier, you haven't watched enough football, Ryan Shazier, or both.
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    Can anyone tell me where this Shazier kid who isnsupposedly worth the 19th pick is, where is he in this video? I don't see him anywhere.

    All I see is a kid who has the easiest linebacker job in college football, a kid who never deals with contact, who gets pushed around, who constantly takes bad angles, doesn't even drop in coverage, gets knocked back at the point of attack almost every time.

    Are we talking about the same guy? Seriously, what the heck is this guy going to do for me in the NFL? I see a player with no position.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F-T3...e_gdata_player
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awsi Dooger View Post
    It's not as different as advertised these days because there's too much preoccupation with the same handful of guys. There may be exponentially more sources of information but when the vast majority is focused on first round players you're not gaining as much as advertised. In my case I certainly knew more about the players as a whole in 1978 than I do today.
    This is a major frustration for me. The NFL Network, in particular, but even ESPN with as many resources as they put into the NFL offseason, have a major missed opportunity here. I actually DVR "Path to the Draft" to watch after work, hoping to get good information on the draft but all they really do is regurgitate the same tired opinions on Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel's latest bowel movement. The good news is i can fast forward through it and watch it in 5 minutes. Literally.

    Even Mike Mayock only gives you his top 5 at each position. I don't see any reason why they can't get into meatier evaluations deep into the draft. Lets face it, if you are watching Path to the Draft, you are probably way past needing info on the top 10 players every night. Let's get some breakdowns on Donte Moncrief vs Cody Latimer for example. Lets talk about the 15th best player at a position so we know who they are. Who are the 4th and 5th rounders? Mayock can't be the only analyst. They don't need to hire every ex jock like Curtis Conway just to fill up their ex player pool spouting superficial useless banter. Hire some ex scouts and start breaking this stuff down, guys. It's such a wasted opportunity. And the production value and budget looks like something a couple of kids could pull off out of their basement.

    Between the draft being pushed back and some of the horrible media coverage, this offseason it seems like there is some lost momentum in football hot stove talk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXwarXx View Post
    Can anyone tell me where this Shazier kid who isnsupposedly worth the 19th pick is, where is he in this video? I don't see him anywhere.

    All I see is a kid who has the easiest linebacker job in college football, a kid who never deals with contact, who gets pushed around, who constantly takes bad angles, doesn't even drop in coverage, gets knocked back at the point of attack almost every time.

    Are we talking about the same guy? Seriously, what the heck is this guy going to do for me in the NFL? I see a player with no position.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F-T3...e_gdata_player
    Do you like Chris Borland from Wisconsin? While short, he's actually pretty strong and fast. He is expected to go in the 2nd round.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Austin Tatious View Post
    This is a major frustration for me. The NFL Network, in particular, but even ESPN with as many resources as they put into the NFL offseason, have a major missed opportunity here. I actually DVR "Path to the Draft" to watch after work, hoping to get good information on the draft but all they really do is regurgitate the same tired opinions on Teddy Bridgewater and Johnny Manziel's latest bowel movement. The good news is i can fast forward through it and watch it in 5 minutes. Literally.

    Even Mike Mayock only gives you his top 5 at each position. I don't see any reason why they can't get into meatier evaluations deep into the draft. Lets face it, if you are watching Path to the Draft, you are probably way past needing info on the top 10 players every night. Let's get some breakdowns on Donte Moncrief vs Cody Latimer for example. Lets talk about the 15th best player at a position so we know who they are. Who are the 4th and 5th rounders? Mayock can't be the only analyst. They don't need to hire every ex jock like Curtis Conway just to fill up their ex player pool spouting superficial useless banter. Hire some ex scouts and start breaking this stuff down, guys. It's such a wasted opportunity. And the production value and budget looks like something a couple of kids could pull off out of their basement.

    Between the draft being pushed back and some of the horrible media coverage, this offseason it seems like there is some lost momentum in football hot stove talk.
    agreed...path to the draft has gotten terrible...it's 20 minutes of the same clowney or same qb talk and fluff all around...i buzz thru it like a hot knife thru butter
    hoops scoops 2012 season ..."in 2014 ryan tannehill etches his name in stone amongst the games elite qbs"..."ryan tannehill and andrew luck will carry the afc for the next decade plus the way peyton manning and tom brady have this last decade plus"
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    Quote Originally Posted by xXwarXx View Post
    "great at shedding blocks". In what world is he great at shedding blocks?

    He's has great instincts at shooting the gaps? You mean in a pre snap read or against the run? because post snap it's really not that impressive, and pre snap, would not be considered a instinct, that's a pre determined play determined by his coach.

    Why do you keep bringing up his tackles, is that all you got? You really want to go through how many linebackers in college get 100 tackles? You make it sound like he did it in the NFL.

    I don't care what his combine weight is, linebackers and defensive line players notoriously bring there weight up for combine. Tees agents spend a lot of $ bringing there weight up combine stats up.

    I look at shaziers game tape I see a skinny legged linebacker who will get ran over in the NFL. Seriously look how god damn skinny those legs are, game day that dude looks is in 220s, I guarantee it.

    If you want to draft undersized linebackers in the 1st rnd, be my guest, I'm against it, and don't care how explosive he is. Don't let the YouTube highlight tapes fool you, these undersized explosive guys get there ass handed to them in the NFL, 99% of the time.
    he played at 225 so your eyes don't deceive you and yes he looked light...does not shed or take on well and yes he has a tendency to overrun and tackle high...some of his tackling skills look more safety than lb...you got it on the instincts they are not high end...you see more athlete and run to the football than instincts at the collegiate level...i don't think they are terrible as in he's lost but this guys getting bumped up off workout numbers...you don't see quite the same level explosion on tape that you got in testing...that said he carried 12 lbs more very well to test like he has but i bet come camp etc you will be getting a guy back down playing in the 230 range...
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    I'm just curious as to how a LB who rarely ("few and far between") makes the right read ends up with 102 solo tackles (btw, that's as many as Kuechly had during his junior season) and 23.5 TFL. If you compare Shazier's junior season to any LB's over the last 10 years, he holds his own with ANY of them. Does he overrun the occasional play? Yes. So does/did every LB who has ever played. Does he sometimes get caught up with an O-lineman? Yes. Ditto. I haven't seen a LB who is better at shooting the gap than Shazier in a long time. I've said it before, but he's Seau like in that regard. You're also not going to find many LB's who can come from the other side of the field and stop Melvin Gordon in a dead sprint. As a sophomore (first full season as a LB HS or college), he had 10 passes defensed and 1 INT (which he returned for a TD). That's 2 more passes defensed than Clinton-Dix and Pryor had combined in 2013.

    If Shazier makes it to Miami, multiple teams shat the bed. You don't get a guy this versatile, this athletic, this productive, and this clean at 19. And in regard to his weight. He weighed in at the combine at 237 (and his pro day, I believe), and he jumped 42 inches and ran a 4.36. Mosley weighed in at the combine at 234. He also said he felt he could easily carry 10 more lbs. Whether or not you believe that is up to you, but he'll be plenty big, and he'll be one of the top 2 or 3 athletes at his position the day he steps on to an NFL field.
    Honestly, I didn't even consider Shazier before I read this thread; however, you make a compelling argument. I know we need help with our OL, but if we picked this guy, I wouldn't be disappointed at all because we need some serious help at LB'r, too. IMO, I have no doubt we are going to draft a LB'r in this draft, so we might as well go with the one who is the best athlete.
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  9. -39
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    Quote Originally Posted by hooshoops View Post
    he played at 225 so your eyes don't deceive you and yes he looked light...does not shed or take on well and yes he has a tendency to overrun and tackle high...some of his tackling skills look more safety than lb...you got it on the instincts they are not high end...you see more athlete and run to the football than instincts at the collegiate level...i don't think they are terrible as in he's lost but this guys getting bumped up off workout numbers...you don't see quite the same level explosion on tape that you got in testing...that said he carried 12 lbs more very well to test like he has but i bet come camp etc you will be getting a guy back down playing in the 230 range...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=1m49s

    Few LB's in the NFL or college game have the range to make this tackle at this point - most would have to take a different angle and tackle the BC after about a 5 yard gain. His closing burst is as good as it gets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=2m55s
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    Quote Originally Posted by j-off-her-doll View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=1m49s

    Few LB's in the NFL or college game have the range to make this tackle at this point - most would have to take a different angle and tackle the BC after about a 5 yard gain. His closing burst is as good as it gets.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wASW1LsnAHc&t=2m55s
    i don't question his range...he's sideline to sideline for sure...however range is not the problem with our incumbents
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