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Thread: Pat Kirwan mock draft 5/2/14

  1. -11
    j-off-her-doll's Avatar
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    I think Jimmie Ward to the Ravens is a great pick. I had the Ravens in a mock and made the same call. His cover skills are the best of any FS prospect since Earl Thomas (imo). I feel like he's going higher than people think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    I don't know which is worse, the jests landing Ebron or us landing the 5th or 6th best OT with injury issues.


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    It doesn't matter where Kouandjio is ranked in a deep OT draft class, what matters is how good he is or isn't. The 4th ranked OT could easily go #12 overall, that's how it goes. As to the injury reports, edumacate yourself:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...ouandjios-knee
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  3. -13
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Gift received at 05-21-2014, 12:20 PM from DisturbedShifty1972 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by jim1 View Post
    It doesn't matter where Kouandjio is ranked in a deep OT draft class, what matters is how good he is or isn't. The 4th ranked OT could easily go #12 overall, that's how it goes. As to the injury reports, edumacate yourself:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/...ouandjios-knee
    Whatever makes you feel better, bubba. A reach is a reach. The draft is deep, but also top heavy. Kouandjio isn't in the same league as Robinson or Matthews. Hell, not even Lewan. Martin brings versatility that K doesn't. Then you add the very real potential of injury issues, not only with his knee, but also the fact that he's played for Alabama against SEC opponents, and you have a reason why he's a reach at that spot. The draft being deep means you can get similar talent with similar risks later on. After Martin, there's a drop off.

    A medical report saying a player is A-OK being released just before a draft? Never seen one of those before. Agents and schools will do whatever they can to pump up the value of their players. There's a real life edumacation for you, free of charge.


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  4. -14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    Whatever makes you feel better, bubba. A reach is a reach. The draft is deep, but also top heavy. Kouandjio isn't in the same league as Robinson or Matthews. Hell, not even Lewan. Martin brings versatility that K doesn't. Then you add the very real potential of injury issues, not only with his knee, but also the fact that he's played for Alabama against SEC opponents, and you have a reason why he's a reach at that spot. The draft being deep means you can get similar talent with similar risks later on. After Martin, there's a drop off.

    A medical report saying a player is A-OK being released just before a draft? Never seen one of those before. Agents and schools will do whatever they can to pump up the value of their players. There's a real life edumacation for you, free of charge.


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    Do you have any idea of who Dr. James Andrews is and what his international reputation is? If he's not the most renowned orthopedic surgeon in the world, he's up there.

    "Andrews, the team doctor for the Washington Redskins NFL franchise, has consulted with or worked on a Who’s Who of professional athletes in the United States, including Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Michael Jordan, Jack Nicklaus, Adrian Peterson, Albert Pujols, Bo Jackson, Roger Clemens and many more."

    http://www.realvail.com/vonn-switche...m-andrews/a484

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)

    Not that long ago Koundjio was considered a solid top 20 pick. What changed more than anything are the whims of perception, and that doesn't concern me. Dude is a solid, solid football player that imo is tailor made for NFL RT. Better player than teammate DJ Fluker who was the #11 overall pick in 2012.

    As to your education, now maybe now you've learned that Dr. Andrews isn't some backwoods doctor who's going to sign off on an injury to make a coach, player or agent happy. Look at the pressure that he put on Shanahan as per the RGIII situation- Shanahan took his own counsel instead of listening to Andrews and it cost him his job and RGIII another reconstruction.

    As to Lewan, it wasn't long ago that Kouanjio was considered his equal or better. Lewan has excellent straight line speed but a choppy kickslide, and Koundjio is the better power player. I don't know at all that I would take Lewan over Koundjio, especially for RT. All the new opinions of Kouandjio are of a flavor of the month/ go with the crowd mentality that don't examine what's really going on beneath the surface. False knee rumors and he ran a slow 40, bfd. All the new opinions are good for a chuckle, and that's about it.
    Last edited by jim1; 05-03-2014 at 03:03 PM.
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  5. -15
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Gift received at 05-21-2014, 12:20 PM from DisturbedShifty1972 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by jim1 View Post
    Do you have any idea of who Dr. James Andrews is and what his international reputation is? If he's not the most renowned orthopedic surgeon in the world, he's up there.

    "Andrews, the team doctor for the Washington Redskins NFL franchise, has consulted with or worked on a Whos Who of professional athletes in the United States, including Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Michael Jordan, Jack Nicklaus, Adrian Peterson, Albert Pujols, Bo Jackson, Roger Clemens and many more."

    http://www.realvail.com/vonn-switche...m-andrews/a484

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Andrews_(physician)

    Not that long ago Koundjio was considered a solid top 20 pick. What changed more than anything are the whims of perception, and that doesn't concern me. Dude is a solid, solid football player that imo is tailor made for NFL RT. Better player than teammate DJ Fluker who was the #11 overall pick in 2012.

    As to your education, now maybe now you've learned that Dr. Andrews isn't some backwoods doctor who's going to sign off on an injury to make a coach, player or agent happy. Look at the pressure that he put on Shanahan as per the RGIII situation- Shanahan took his own counsel instead of listening to Andrews and it cost him his job and RGIII another reconstruction.

    As to Lewan, it wasn't long ago that Kouanjio was considered his equal or better. Lewan has excellent straight line speed but a choppy kickslide, and Koundjio is the better power player. I don't know at all that I would take Lewan over Koundjio, especially for RT. All the new opinions of Kouandjio are of a flavor of the month/ go with the crowd mentality that don't examine what's really going on beneath the surface. False knee rumors and he ran a slow 40, bfd. All the new opinions are good for a chuckle, and that's about it.
    Cool story. I know who Dr. Andrews is and I'll even buy that the surgery wasn't botched. What I won't buy is that his knee isn't going to cause him problems through his career. Hey, if 2014 was all we were drafting for, sure, sign me up. That's not the case though.

    So, there are a few strikes against him IMO, with the biggest one being that I have no interest in drafting straight up RT at 19. Martin is a minor exception due to his versatility, but even then I'm not a huge fan, more indifferent.

    As for Lewan, I also have no interest in Incognito Jr, not that he would fall to us anyways.


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    Does he fit our scheme? I really don't think he does. He seems a natural fit for a power scheme. If we want to say people use to be consider top 20 than we should be taking Lee at 19 as he was ranked top 5-10 player before.
    Let's go Miami!!!!
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  7. -17
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    It's not a fad....2013 tape is 3rd round tape.

    Sign: Daryn Colledge
    Draft: 1. LB Ryan Shazier 2. OL Joel Bitonio 3. WR Donte Moncrief 4. OL Brandon Thomas 5. OT Laurent Duvernay Tardif 6. RB Bo Oliver 7. TBD

    LT Albert LG Smith C Pouncey RG Colledge RT Bitonio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonzo View Post
    Cool story. I know who Dr. Andrews is and I'll even buy that the surgery wasn't botched. What I won't buy is that his knee isn't going to cause him problems through his career. Hey, if 2014 was all we were drafting for, sure, sign me up. That's not the case though.

    So, there are a few strikes against him IMO, with the biggest one being that I have no interest in drafting straight up RT at 19. Martin is a minor exception due to his versatility, but even then I'm not a huge fan, more indifferent.

    As for Lewan, I also have no interest in Incognito Jr, not that he would fall to us anyways.


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    ACL injuries are so common now that unless there's a particular problem/complication I don't know that they're such a big deal, especially for an OL. As to the RT position, imo last year Miami showed how critical of a position it really is- if Miami needs a stud RTand one is there at #19, depending on what else is out there I'd say go for it. For me the most intriguing draft story for Miami is our OL needs matched up with how strong the OL and WR classes are. I'm a Zach Martin fan, but even if he's there oneplayer keeps me thinking- WR Brandin Cooks. The intriguing element is the opportunity cost of taking a martin, or a Cooks for that matter, relative to what OTs and WRs will be available in rds 2-3. The problem is that if we don't go OT at #19 then most or maybe all of the top 10 OTs in this draft will likely be gone. You could be looking at the top OTs available at #50 being Jack Mewhort and Billy Turner, and I'm not really comfortable with that. If that were the case I'd probably go with plan B, take Michael Scholfield or Matt Patchan later in the draft. I'd hate to force a pick at #50 in such a deep draft, especially if a guy like Kyle Van Noy is available there.
    Last edited by jim1; 05-03-2014 at 04:32 PM.
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  9. -19
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearTheBeard View Post
    It's not a fad....2013 tape is 3rd round tape.
    Where would you rate the 2012 tape? is he better now than DJ Fluker? Where was Fluker drafted and how is he doing?

    All that I can say is that I've looked over the 2012 and 2013 tape- 2012 is better, but in 2013 Kouandjio gave up 1.5 sacks before the lousy bowl game in somewhere around 300 pass plays. He's a road grader. I don't see a 3rd round player in the 2013 tape, not even close. And I see a top flight prospect in the 2012 tape. Who was it from OSU who got two sacks on Jake Long? Jake still went #1 overall.

    Part of the fun of the draft is differing opinions, judging them against your own because it's fun and also to learn something. I altered my opinion of Tiny Richardson after reading some other opinions, going back to the tape and realizing that those opinion had more validity than mine. No shame there, and it's fun. I like the power and quick feet of Joel Bitonio, but Awsi Dooger gave me something to think about and I'll go back and watch more film. I do it because I enjoy it, and par tof that process is seeing what other people think. That being said, my opinion is that Cyrus Kouandjio is one hell of an OT that could be a GREAT fit for us at RT if his knee checks out, and so far I'm convinced that it does. Dude is a freaking steam roller with pretty darned good lateral movement, and I've been watching him and an amazing Alabama OL for the last few years. He had a few blips last season, but that dude is a very, very good football player and every time I watch him of film I'm reminded of it even more.

    The latest craze is Ju'Wuan James, but personally while I like him I see a solid yet unspectacular 2nd to 3rd rd pick. If he and Koundjio are available at #19 and it's one or the other, I'm taking Kouandjio. Just opinions, same as the strong ones I have for Kyle Van Noy, James Gayle, Brandin Cooks, Matt Patchan and Trai Turner. That being said, please identify which games last season besides the Sugar Bowl Koundjio played like a 3rd rounder and i'll go back and look at the tape.
    Last edited by jim1; 05-03-2014 at 04:44 PM.
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Gift received at 05-21-2014, 12:20 PM from DisturbedShifty1972 Dolphins Logo
    Quote Originally Posted by jim1 View Post
    ACL injuries are so common now that unless there's a particular problem/complication I don't know that they're such a big deal, especially for an OL. As to the RT position, imo last year Miami showed how critical of a position it really is- if Miami needs a stud RTand one is there at #19, depending on what else is out there I'd say go for it. For me the most intriguing draft story for Miami is our OL needs matched up with how strong the OL and WR classes are. I'm a Zach Martin fan, but even if he's there on player keepsme thinking- WR Brandin Cooks. The intriguing element is the opportunity cost of taking a martin, or a Cooks for that matter, relative to what OTs and WRs will be available in rds 2-3. The problem is that if we don't go OT at #19 then most or maybe all of the top 10 OTs in this draft will likely be gone. You could be looking at the top OTs available at #50 being Jack Mewhort and Billy Turner, and I'm not really comfortable with that. If that were the case I'd probably go with plan B, take Michael Scholfield or Matt Patchan later in the draft. I'd hate to force a pick at #50 in such a deep draft, especially if a guy like Kyle Van Noy is available there.
    Glad we can drop the unnecessary "edumacation" and my sarcastic responses to it. This is more like it :hi-5:

    I have to disagree regarding lasting knee issues, especially with linemen supporting far more weight and needing to be far more mobile in a ZBS. While repairing ACL injuries is far superior to what it once was (sometimes career ending), it still takes a long time for recovery and the risk of re-injury is high (15 times higher if I remember correctly). The latter is what concerns me. Too much of a risk for my blood, especially after last year's draft in which Ireland apparently spent most of his time scouting hospitals.

    If for some reason we can't manage to land a RT somewhere in the draft, first, I'd have to question our GM's ability, and second, I'd be okay going with a FA and a developmental guy in the mid-to-late rounds over passing a more talented player out desperation.


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