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Thread: Where Miami Stands in Improved Pass Protect for Tannehill

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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17

    Where Miami Stands in Improved Pass Protect for Tannehill

    Most are locked in on 58 sacks, worse since 2007. The average was 30-35 sacks in the NFL. I goes a little deeper in 7 sacks were on the team in not having a blocker on a blitz, and 10 sacks were on RT, RB's, and TE's. We all hope that Lazor will correct some of these problems, as well as players getting better. I'm guessing that we can bring this number down to around 10.

    Then, there is the OL which individually gave up 41 sacks, far from good. Here's a closer look.

    LT- McKinnie, in 428 tries, gave up 7 sacks, 9 hits, and 23 hurries. Martin, with 270 tries at LT, gave up 6-5-12. Combined, 13-14-35. Albert, on 500 tries, gave up 4 sacks, 6 hits, and 13 hurries. HUGE difference.

    C- Pouncey, in 594 tries, gave up 3-3-9 and was the best C in pass blocking in the NFL. The same would be great.

    LG- Cog,in 312 tries, gave up 6-3-2, Brenner 1-2-10, and Garner 2-1-8. Combined 9-6- 20. Shelly, in 200 tries was 2-4-12. He does not have to set the world on fire to be better than the overall pass protect at LG.

    RG- Jerry, in 681 tries, gave up 5-4-16. The sacks were a little high for an OG but, overall he played well on the pass. I think Dallas, Brenner or, a vet can come fairly close to offsetting Jerry here, hope so.

    RT- Clabo, while playing much better after 5 games, gave up 11-10-31 for the year, and Martin chimed in wit 1-2-3 in his one game. This is where we NEED to do something to be better this year.

    We can add in Benton to this equation but, he needs the talent to work with. Lat year at Houston, they gave up 27 sacks but, 55 hits, and 180 hurries, compared to 23-39-97 in 2012, and last year, Miami was 58-42- 131.

    There is still some time to fix the right side but, opportunities have dwindled since FA, and the draft looks very questionable at this point.
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    Its not just about sacks. Its about the hurries and the hits. Those force the QB to be inaccurate, off timing throws, check downs, and flinching in 4th Q. Pressure was the killer of the Fins offense last year, pressure on the QB.
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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by Los Dolfins View Post
    Its not just about sacks. Its about the hurries and the hits. Those force the QB to be inaccurate, off timing throws, check downs, and flinching in 4th Q. Pressure was the killer of the Fins offense last year, pressure on the QB.
    Yeah, which is why I included them. Overall, Benton's OL last year gave up more total pressure than the Dolphins. Hard to believe.
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    There is a giant item missing from nearly all of these discussions sacks, how many pass rushers were needed to generate the pressure. IMO, FAR TOO MANY pressures and sacks came with only 4 or 5 (sometimes 3) rushers. This was the bigger issue with the Dolphins OL last year.
    Angry Deniers. A bunch of agenda-driven whiny clowns whose sole mission is to deny anything good that Tannehill has done and deny anything bad that the "gods of quarterbacks" have done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    Yeah, which is why I included them. Overall, Benton's OL last year gave up more total pressure than the Dolphins. Hard to believe.
    Maybe, but less so if you are in the camp that thinks our below average pass pro wasn't the only reason for the high sack numbers. I am a big supporter of Ryan and believe he is the future of the Miami Dolphins, but part of the sacks he took last year was his fault, he's said it and the coaching staff have said it.

    I wonder if there are many other QBs in the NFL that took as high a % of sacks compared to the number of hurries?? See that has always been my issue, it's not that he doesn't feel the pressure, or know where it is coming from, he just has no escapeability. He has very good speed, is very athletic, but he has poor acceleration for a guy with his speed, and he isn't strong enough yet to break tackles like Luck or some of the others. A lot of other QBs lack in those areas and can still get away from a lot more defenders.

    Big DLmen coming through running wide open can't change direction very well, and most QBs are well versed in using this against them, by giving quick head fakes and going the other way. Ryan rarely uses this to his advantage.

    Don't get me wrong, I know our OL was not in the top half of the league in pass pro last year, but it wasn't in the bottom 2 or 3 either by most rankings. I'm not sure how much of that was on Ryan and how much was on Sherman for teaching him to hold it too long, or bad play design, but I'm hoping Lazor can add some better escapeability to his game, or the new pieces on the OL really won't make that much difference.
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    Those of you thinking Shelley will be some kind of improvement need to think again. We are a passing team and he is a run blocker. Let's look a little closer at the Incognito comparison.

    In 312 plays--mostly pass plays--Incognito allowed 6-3-2, which is only 11 negative plays.

    By comparison, Shelley in 200 plays--with a significantly higher percentage being run plays--gave up 2-4-12, for a total of 18 negative plays. If we extend that out to 312 plays for comparison purposes that would be 28 negative plays.

    So, where Incognito gave us 11 negative plays we could expect Shelley to give us 28 negative plays. That is by no means an improvement. That is a disaster of epic proportions. No, Shelley is not a starter, he is a project.

    I'm all for developing him, but if he is anywhere close to as terrible as he was last year he should only see the field on obvious running downs like protecting a lead, short yardage or goal line situations.

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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by Digital View Post
    Those of you thinking Shelley will be some kind of improvement need to think again. We are a passing team and he is a run blocker. Let's look a little closer at the Incognito comparison.

    In 312 plays--mostly pass plays--Incognito allowed 6-3-2, which is only 11 negative plays.

    By comparison, Shelley in 200 plays--with a significantly higher percentage being run plays--gave up 2-4-12, for a total of 18 negative plays. If we extend that out to 312 plays for comparison purposes that would be 28 negative plays.

    So, where Incognito gave us 11 negative plays we could expect Shelley to give us 28 negative plays. That is by no means an improvement. That is a disaster of epic proportions. No, Shelley is not a starter, he is a project.

    I'm all for developing him, but if he is anywhere close to as terrible as he was last year he should only see the field on obvious running downs like protecting a lead, short yardage or goal line situations.

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    The number of plays I listed were all pass protect only. Agree, there is no way in hell that Shelly is close to Cog but, I was looking at the overall LG play, including Brenner and Garner. He could match that "production" or, maybe better it a bit while still being below average.
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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by FinfanInBuffalo View Post
    There is a giant item missing from nearly all of these discussions sacks, how many pass rushers were needed to generate the pressure. IMO, FAR TOO MANY pressures and sacks came with only 4 or 5 (sometimes 3) rushers. This was the bigger issue with the Dolphins OL last year.
    That's a part of it, as is the D knowing RT was gonna throw with no respect for the run. When you pin your ears back to go after a QB, with no thought of a run, I'm guessing that has to add half a second to the pass rush, maybe more overall.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    The number of plays I listed were all pass protect only. Agree, there is no way in hell that Shelly is close to Cog but, I was looking at the overall LG play, including Brenner and Garner. He could match that "production" or, maybe better it a bit while still being below average.
    Yes I know they were all pass plays. What I meant to express, but didn't do a good job of explaining, was that Incognito probably had more reps/practice at pass pro, so there should be some improvement expected there. But ... The amount of improvement needed still clearly prevents him from being labeled a solution at this point.

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Gift received at 02-24-2014, 02:26 PM from hooshoopsTannehill 17Tannehill 17
    Quote Originally Posted by KTOWNFINFAN View Post
    Maybe, but less so if you are in the camp that thinks our below average pass pro wasn't the only reason for the high sack numbers. I am a big supporter of Ryan and believe he is the future of the Miami Dolphins, but part of the sacks he took last year was his fault, he's said it and the coaching staff have said it.

    I wonder if there are many other QBs in the NFL that took as high a % of sacks compared to the number of hurries?? See that has always been my issue, it's not that he doesn't feel the pressure, or know where it is coming from, he just has no escapeability. He has very good speed, is very athletic, but he has poor acceleration for a guy with his speed, and he isn't strong enough yet to break tackles like Luck or some of the others. A lot of other QBs lack in those areas and can still get away from a lot more defenders.

    Big DLmen coming through running wide open can't change direction very well, and most QBs are well versed in using this against them, by giving quick head fakes and going the other way. Ryan rarely uses this to his advantage.

    Don't get me wrong, I know our OL was not in the top half of the league in pass pro last year, but it wasn't in the bottom 2 or 3 either by most rankings. I'm not sure how much of that was on Ryan and how much was on Sherman for teaching him to hold it too long, or bad play design, but I'm hoping Lazor can add some better escapeability to his game, or the new pieces on the OL really won't make that much difference.
    Hard to say how much was on RT or the coaching. I think it was obvious to most that the coaches did not want him to run or take many chances. The other thing is that most of the time QB's are getting pressure from one place, and I saw many a play where RT had no wiggle room to turn to the other side.

    I'm hoping this year, he has at least one side to find a semi-safe haven to move to.
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