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Thread: Civil War buffs have to check this out

  1. -1
    fishfanmiami's Avatar
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    Civil War buffs have to check this out

    Last edited by fishfanmiami; 06-12-2014 at 02:22 AM.
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    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishfanmiami View Post
    Thanks for this. I've seen a few of the videos put out by this outfit and they're all well made. A few years back I read Grant's mammoth autobiography (666 pages, iirc). As I recall, Vicksburg was his proudest moment. A lot of people have their own theories and pet answers about when victory for the North became inevitable. For me it's Vicksburg, without question. It's not as flashy as Gettysburg -- which can be understood as a battle much easier than Vicksburg, where everything is muddled -- but assuming a person believes the South had any chance at all that chance surely ends with Vicksburg.

    My only quibble is with the end of the video, where they talk about the need to recognize and celebrate and remember the sacrifices made by both sides. **** that. On one side was the United States. On the other side was an armed insurrection, fueled by racial hate. This persistent desire to romanticize the South (I prefer not to recognize them as a nation by calling them the Confederacy) is just... ugly. It's nothing new. But it's ugly.
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    fishfanmiami's Avatar
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    My parents were from Mississippi and Georgia respectively so I grew up thinking the South were the good guys until I got old enough to know better.

    As you mentioned Vicksburg falling and Lee's failed attempt to threaten Washington DC and force Lincoln to sue for peace ending at Gettysburg were pretty much the end of Southern victories and made the final outcome inevitable.
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    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishfanmiami View Post
    My parents were from Mississippi and Georgia respectively so I grew up thinking the South were the good guys until I got old enough to know better.

    As you mentioned Vicksburg falling and Lee's failed attempt to threaten Washington DC and force Lincoln to sue for peace ending at Gettysburg were pretty much the end of Southern victories and made the final outcome inevitable.
    I don't think Lee's effort really ever had a chance. Even if Lincoln had had to flee Washington he would not have sued for peace. Remember at that point it was only 50 years after Madison had had to flee Washington. I don't think the psychological impact would be the same as it would be, say, today. Washington as a city was already pretty tough and had shouldered a lot of pain. You could hear the cannon fire from Bull Run at the White House and the wounded streamed into the city after the first battle (and presumably the second).

    Had the city fallen Lincoln would have just gone to Philadelphia or New York. In fact I think he was advised to do so several times even with the city secure but he refused. Without Vicksburg though it was a matter of time no matter what. Occupy Washington or not, the South was doomed.

    Lee was a brilliant battlefield commander but his grasp of warfare as a whole -- on the scale of an entire theater of war -- was somewhat more limited. Grant's ability to think in those terms is what made him so effective. Not to mention he also had substantial advantages in supplies and manpower. It was thanks to those two advantages that he was able to end the war so quickly once he got to the East to face Lee.
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    fishfanmiami's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalrus View Post
    I don't think Lee's effort really ever had a chance. Even if Lincoln had had to flee Washington he would not have sued for peace.
    True but facing reelection political forces may have forced his hand or that of his successor had Lee been successful. At least that was the South's reasoning. In truth the South's only hope was forcing a stalemate and hoping the North grew tire of battle. The overwhelming material and men advantage was the South's undoing and when you add in superb leadership (finally) from the likes of Grant and Sherman they never really had a chance.
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    TheWalrus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishfanmiami View Post
    True but facing reelection political forces may have forced his hand or that of his successor had Lee been successful. At least that was the South's reasoning. In truth the South's only hope was forcing a stalemate and hoping the North grew tire of battle. The overwhelming material and men advantage was the South's undoing and when you add in superb leadership (finally) from the likes of Grant and Sherman they never really had a chance.
    To me the South's only hope was in getting European powers to join the fight on their side. Fortunately for us and unfortunately for them, the South didn't have a Benjamin Franklin who could make that happen.
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    fishfanmiami's Avatar
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    here's some more animated battle maps if your interested

    http://www.civilwar.org/maps/
    Last edited by fishfanmiami; 06-12-2014 at 05:54 PM.
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    GoonBoss's Avatar
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    I never found the western war that interesting.

    Thanks Shifty!

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    jnewmant's Avatar
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    I live not to far from Vicksburg, we took quite a few trips to the park in high school. I'm teathering with my phone's wifi so i can't stream the video and i'm not sure if it mentions it but the city of Vicksburg didn't celebrate fourth of July until after ww1 or ww2 can't quite remember, always thought that was pretty insane. When we covered the Civil War in junior high I actually had a teacher that grew up in Illinois teaching the material so it made it interesting.
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    My mom was from Pontotoc Miss.
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