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Thread: Interesting Comparison- Phins OL 2012 vs 2013

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    In 2012, the OL had new coaches, new ZBS scheme, and players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 20 sacks, and everyone was better on the run (Cog was a bit off). Pouncey, Jerry, Cog, and Martin played almost every snap, with Big Jake having some injuries playing 75%, and Garner filling in for the rest.

    In 2013, the L had the same coaches, same scheme, and the same players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 41 sacks, and everyone was worse on the run. Jerry played all the snaps but, the rest were mix and match for most of the year.

    So, the question is if it was the talent, fit, and coaching or, playing together as a unit which caused the disastrous OL play in 2013?
    Big difference was Jake Long at left tackle and Martin at right tackle in 2012. Huge
    Offensive line coach is to blame to some degree as Jake Longs presence covered up many issues that year and of course you do not put a sissy like Martin at left tackle and the stop gap RT from Atlanta last year was not the answer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geforce View Post
    We did not have the same players in 2013 that we had in 2012. Jon Martin replaced Jake Long at LT. Tyson Clabo replaced Jon Martin at RT. Reggie Bush was a playmaker that Lamar Miller is only hoping to become and was able to get a lot of yards after contact that none of the running backs was able to.
    Incognito was suspended as well for most of it....I raised an eyebrow as well at the same line statement?
    Jay Fiedler can take his'n and lose to your'n.....or take your'n and lose to his'n.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    In 2012, the OL had new coaches, new ZBS scheme, and players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 20 sacks, and everyone was better on the run (Cog was a bit off). Pouncey, Jerry, Cog, and Martin played almost every snap, with Big Jake having some injuries playing 75%, and Garner filling in for the rest.

    In 2013, the L had the same coaches, same scheme, and the same players who did not fit. Yet that OL gave up 41 sacks, and everyone was worse on the run. Jerry played all the snaps but, the rest were mix and match for most of the year.

    So, the question is if it was the talent, fit, and coaching or, playing together as a unit which caused the disastrous OL play in 2013?
    Besides it not being the same players, what are you basing your sack numbers on? Somebody's analysis of how many of the 58 were creditied to the line?
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    Quote Originally Posted by truedolfan57 View Post
    shouright/gravity 2.0. You have to realize that the individual grades can and are affected by other players around you. ie TE and RB's.
    Putting grades aside for the moment, I do agree that a TE or RB can prevent an OL from giving up a sack but, they cannot help on the sacks he is credited in giving up. If you look at a sack, and then the replay, most can see who was responsible in giving it up. Sacks are facts, and not opinions or grades.

    Last year, the OL gave up 41, year before was 20. My question was if playing together as a unit the whole year was more responsible than all the changes last yea,r with basically the same talent level, for the much reduced sack total. I believe it was.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueFin View Post
    Besides it not being the same players, what are you basing your sack numbers on? Somebody's analysis of how many of the 58 were creditied to the line?
    If you re-read, I said "the same players who did not fit" like Jerry and Cog. The sack number breakdown last year was Tannehill with 3 for holding the ball over 4 seconds, RB's with 5, Sims with 2, the team with 7 on blitzes and unblocked defenders, and 41 for the OL. As far as I know, these are facts which no one has disagreed with over the past 6 months.
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    FWIW, Fasano was only in to pass block 86 times in 2012, giving up 0 sacks. Clay was in for 105 with 0 sacks. I'm sure they gave some help to the OT's but it was not a whole lot. Snaps are also fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by phintim View Post
    Big difference was Jake Long at left tackle and Martin at right tackle in 2012. Huge
    Offensive line coach is to blame to some degree as Jake Longs presence covered up many issues that year and of course you do not put a sissy like Martin at left tackle and the stop gap RT from Atlanta last year was not the answer.
    Good point. Long was a difference, and it was not only his play when he was able but his leadership did help IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    If you look at a sack, and then the replay, most can see who was responsible in giving it up. Sacks are facts, and not opinions or grades.
    Sack count is a fact. The responsibility of that sack is opinion of the grader.

    ---------- Post added at 12:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:26 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Southbeach 2 View Post
    FWIW, Fasano was only in to pass block 86 times in 2012, giving up 0 sacks. Clay was in for 105 with 0 sacks. I'm sure they gave some help to the OT's but it was not a whole lot. Snaps are also fact.
    86 snaps is a lot. 105 is a lot. Having a TE in changes the whole blocking scheme.
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