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Thread: Good article on the Colorado amendment that could cause chaos.

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    Jimmy James's Avatar
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    Good article on the Colorado amendment that could cause chaos.

    ABAJournal on the two ways the amendment could give rise to a Court challenge in a tight race

    When Colorado voters go to the polls Tuesday, they won’t just be voting for president. They also will be voting on a state constitutional amendment that could decide the outcome of the presidential election.

    Amendment 36, as Colorado’s ballot initiative is known, would change the way the state’s nine electoral votes are allocated from a winner-take-all basis to a proportional system depending on each candidate’s share of the popular vote.

    If passed, the proposed amendment would take effect immediately, meaning that the winner of the presidential contest in Colorado would likely end up with five electoral votes and the loser with four. Nebraska and Maine follow a similar system.

    Most pre-election polls are calling for a close race, meaning a split in Colorado’s electoral vote could wind up costing either candidate the election. If it does, litigation is all but inevitable, requiring the courts to determine whether a state can change its method of selecting presidential electors by voter initiative and whether Amendment 36 can properly be applied to Tuesday’s election.

    The possibility is not as farfetched as it might seem. Had Amendment 36 been in effect in 2000, Al Gore would now be president.
    I'll note that it is likely that the suit dismissed by a citizen was dismissed on some ground like the citizen not having standing or there not being a proper basis for a challenge before the people of Colorado vote on it. I haven't seen anything on that suit to know for sure, though.

    It comes down to these arguments:

    1) The people of Colorado are doing something that the state legislature has the power to do under the Constitution. Does that power lie exclusively with the legislature as Thomas, Scalia, and Rhenquist clearly believe and it appears Kennedy and O'Connor believed back during Bush v. Palm Beach (aka Bush I), or does it lie with the state to do with as it pleases?

    2) The amendment takes effect on Nov 3, but the electors are chosen in a vote on Nov 2. Is this an improper ex post facto law (actually, amendment)?




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    Rafiki's Avatar
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    Why five to the winner and four to the loser? I would go with percentages and divde them that way. In that way at least it would be closer to a true Democracy.

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    Jimmy James's Avatar
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    I think that it is based on the percentages, but everybody talks about 5-4 because you'd need over 60% of the vote to get it to be 6-3. That isn't going to happen in this election.
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    Rafiki's Avatar
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    Word. I honestly think the key to a higher voter turnout is a truer democracy. The Electoral college is outdated and needs ousting. That way even if you live in a Democrat or Republican State your vote will count.
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    Phinzone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafiki
    Word. I honestly think the key to a higher voter turnout is a truer democracy. The Electoral college is outdated and needs ousting. That way even if you live in a Democrat or Republican State your vote will count.
    and your suggestion for solving the electoral college would be? And DO NOT say "every vote counts" because that's bull **** and would never work. Only an idiot would think tha the popular vote is the way to go.
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    Jimmy James's Avatar
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    What would you replace the electoral college with?
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    Rafiki's Avatar
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    Is it really unreasonable to say that every vote should count? In ancient Greece, they would tally the votes of each individual; making it the truest form of Democracy to date.

    I understand that the sheer number of people in this, the third largest country in the world, would make that task daunting- to say the least. But I do believe in technology. And I believe that Technology will provide this answer to us.

    How? I would have to say a type of nationwide ethernet, impervious to hacking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phinzone
    and your suggestion for solving the electoral college would be? And DO NOT say "every vote counts" because that's bull **** and would never work. Only an idiot would think tha the popular vote is the way to go.

    Only "an idiot" would support a popular vote? WTF? A popular vote is the most FAIR way of electing a president. It would make every vote EQUAL. Right now some votes are worth more than others. It is total BS. I guess you believe that only "an idiot" believes in a democracy.

    The electoral college is outdated. We need a popular vote, and we need it now.

    P.S. Don't even try arguing that a popular vote would only make cities matter. Right now, the candidates only campaign in 10 states, which covers only a small portion of the population.
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    Jimmy James's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblizzard69
    Only "an idiot" would support a popular vote? WTF? A popular vote is the most FAIR way of electing a president. It would make every vote EQUAL. Right now some votes are worth more than others. It is total BS. I guess you believe that only "an idiot" believes in a democracy.

    The electoral college is outdated. We need a popular vote, and we need it now.
    We don't have a democracy -- we have a republic made up of democracies. Moving to a popular vote election destroys federalism. We don't directly elect anybody on a nationwide basis now, and we never will if only because there is never going to be enough support to amend the Constitution to destroy our system. To do this, you have to take serious power out of the hands of states and vest that in the federal government.

    P.S. Don't even try arguing that a popular vote would only make cities matter. Right now, the candidates only campaign in 10 states, which covers only a small portion of the population.
    I'll give you a compelling argument against the popular vote method you're advancing: imagine a closely contested election that goes wrong in the same sort of way Florida did in 2000. Let's say that one candidate ends up winning with 10,000 votes across the whole nation with reports of trouble in several places. You're stuck recounting ballots and litigating this stuff in 50 different states, and you'll never get a winner unless some body like the Supreme Court puts a stop to it. Does that really sound like something you want to see?
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    ohall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iceblizzard69
    Only "an idiot" would support a popular vote? WTF? A popular vote is the most FAIR way of electing a president. It would make every vote EQUAL. Right now some votes are worth more than others. It is total BS. I guess you believe that only "an idiot" believes in a democracy.

    The electoral college is outdated. We need a popular vote, and we need it now.

    P.S. Don't even try arguing that a popular vote would only make cities matter. Right now, the candidates only campaign in 10 states, which covers only a small portion of the population.
    No it's not. If we did that then states like NY, California, Texas and Florida would determine who was President and the rest of the states would mean nothing.

    This is why we have the current system. If smaller states do not help decide who is President why would they want to be a part of our country.
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