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Thread: How can abortion be legal?

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    AshleyJudd'sMan's Avatar
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    How can abortion be legal?

    I really have tried being understanding to the pro choice side of the issue. With a healthy conscience I can't personally condone this. I have had discussions posing both as pro life and choice. I overwhelmingly feel the government has no right to say a fetus is not a person. I am all for womens rights but this is not an issue of her body. She makes a choice to have sex therefore she gives up the right and has to live with the decision she made not to use birth control. Anyone who has ever seen a picture of an aborted fetus knows as I do how sickening it is. I don't advocate murder to innocent life and people who blow up clinics hurt the pro life cause. In addition I am agnostic and decided to be pro life. I feel the religious right sometimes hurts the pro life cause as well. In 2008 I plan to vote for a president who will clean up our stupid president mess, is pro life, and is a Miami Dolphin fan.
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    PhinPhan1227's Avatar
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    What evidence do you have that a 1st trimester fetus IS a person? How do you define a person? What makes us different from your pet dog? What makes an object with no brain superior to an animal that is not only intelligent, but capable of tremendous loyalty, and fully capable of surviving on its own? BTW, what you have seen are late term and partial birth abortions, which I also oppose. There's almost nothing to show in a 1st trimester abortion. Oh, and if you DO believe that a fetus is a person from day 1 than you SHOULD advocate shooting abortion docs. If I told you that a man was murduring 10-20 two year old kids every day, wouldn't YOU shoot him? You can't have it both ways. If a fetus is a person as soon as it is concieved, than it is a PERSON. Rape victims should not be able to abort, nor should incest victims. A fetus should have every right a 2 year old chilc would have.
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    zach13's Avatar
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    AshleyJudd'sMan's Avatar
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    Regardless if it is 1st trimester or not,it is a living PERSON once it is LIVING in a womb. I too feel late trimester abortions are horrible but to say "what defines a person" is about as stupid as stupid gets. It's a person because 2 people had sex either to have fun or create a PERSON. If the 2 people are stupid and didn't use birth control do you condone abortion as birth control? Look this isn't 1940 where the pill isn't around. These women need to take control of their bodies and not be LAZY. Men need to practice it too but WE have no choice in deciding if the chick kills the fetus or not.

    To ansewer the question about shooting up clinics because they are committing murder, that is not my place to decide. But I am allowed my opinion on abortion. And when enough OPINIONS get together we have a vote and then if enough opinions decide something is good or bad we make a law. It is not lawful to kill a doctor who does this.

    Rape and incest victims I feel sorry for but it is still a person. Give it up for adoption.
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    ABrownLamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyJudd'sMan
    Regardless if it is 1st trimester or not,it is a living PERSON once it is LIVING in a womb. I too feel late trimester abortions are horrible but to say "what defines a person" is about as stupid as stupid gets. It's a person because 2 people had sex either to have fun or create a PERSON. If the 2 people are stupid and didn't use birth control do you condone abortion as birth control? Look this isn't 1940 where the pill isn't around. These women need to take control of their bodies and not be LAZY. Men need to practice it too but WE have no choice in deciding if the chick kills the fetus or not.

    To ansewer the question about shooting up clinics because they are committing murder, that is not my place to decide. But I am allowed my opinion on abortion. And when enough OPINIONS get together we have a vote and then if enough opinions decide something is good or bad we make a law. It is not lawful to kill a doctor who does this.

    Rape and incest victims I feel sorry for but it is still a person. Give it up for adoption.
    You are being ridiculous. What defines a person is a reasonable question when you are talking about a glob of goo. Birth control is not 100% effective.

    Saying that even in rape, you must have the child is despicable. If your mother gets raped, please don't try to tell me that your family would refuse to allow her to abort. You make everything so blakc and white when it does not affect your life. You really have some nerve making a statement like that. To think that there are people like you who advocate forcing 12 year old rape or incest vicitms to become mothers is really disturbing.
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    PhinPhan1227's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshleyJudd'sMan
    Regardless if it is 1st trimester or not,it is a living PERSON once it is LIVING in a womb. I too feel late trimester abortions are horrible but to say "what defines a person" is about as stupid as stupid gets. It's a person because 2 people had sex either to have fun or create a PERSON. If the 2 people are stupid and didn't use birth control do you condone abortion as birth control? Look this isn't 1940 where the pill isn't around. These women need to take control of their bodies and not be LAZY. Men need to practice it too but WE have no choice in deciding if the chick kills the fetus or not.

    To ansewer the question about shooting up clinics because they are committing murder, that is not my place to decide. But I am allowed my opinion on abortion. And when enough OPINIONS get together we have a vote and then if enough opinions decide something is good or bad we make a law. It is not lawful to kill a doctor who does this.

    Rape and incest victims I feel sorry for but it is still a person. Give it up for adoption.

    How about we answer a question with something other than, "it's a person because it's a person"? What MAKES a person? Just because it has human DNA doesn't make it a person with all the rights of a person. Terri Schievo was a "person". But because she had no upper brain functions she was ruled to have no rights. Guess what, Terri had infinitely more brain function than a 1st trimester fetus. Of course you are entitled to your opinion. But if you are going to declare it, you should be ready to have it challenged. I'd ask for evidence of what makes a fetus a person, but you haven't even given a CONCEPT of what makes a fetus a person. As a nation, we take "human" lives every day. There are plenty of reasons why we kill "people" legally. Punishment for crimes, self defense, war, brain death, easement of pain, protection of a mothers life, and others. All of these are PEOPLE. And they all are killed legally. What makes them less of a person than anyone else? If an object with no brain is a person, than what makes that object superior to Terri Scheivo? What makes that object superior to a dog? My dog can learn. My dog is loyal. My dog feels happiness, and sadness. Dogs even feel grief, and have been known to die from it. How is an object which has nothing even resembling a brain superior to my dog? You are an agnostic. By definition, you can't say "because a fetus has a soul", because that would be counter to your expressed beliefs (you could perhaps say the fetus MIGHT have a soul). So how about it? Are you going to give a thought out response, or just fall back on, "It's a person because it's a person"?
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    PhinPhan1227's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABrownLamp
    You are being ridiculous. What defines a person is a reasonable question when you are talking about a glob of goo. Birth control is not 100% effective.

    Saying that even in rape, you must have the child is despicable. If your mother gets raped, please don't try to tell me that your family would refuse to allow her to abort. You make everything so blakc and white when it does not affect your life. You really have some nerve making a statement like that. To think that there are people like you who advocate forcing 12 year old rape or incest vicitms to become mothers is really disturbing.

    Actually, I respect that aspect of his position. If you believe that a fetus is a person than you SHOULD advocate EVERY fetus being delivered safely. Would you kill a 2 year old because he was the product of rape? The opinions that ARE unsuportable are those who say that a fetus is a person, but that it's ok to kill them when rape or incest is involved.
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    DolFan31's Avatar
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    ABrownLamp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhinPhan1227
    Actually, I respect that aspect of his position. If you believe that a fetus is a person than you SHOULD advocate EVERY fetus being delivered safely. Would you kill a 2 year old because he was the product of rape? The opinions that ARE unsuportable are those who say that a fetus is a person, but that it's ok to kill them when rape or incest is involved.
    And I would agree except for the fact that no one would really stand by this when it is their mother or daughter that is the victim. Makes no sense. It's everyone else's burden until it hits home.
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    PhinPhan1227's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABrownLamp
    And I would agree except for the fact that no one would really stand by this when it is their mother or daughter that is the victim. Makes no sense. It's everyone else's burden until it hits home.


    I don't disagree with that, but we are talking about concepts here. If you declare that a fetus from day 1 is a person, than you must accept everything that comes with that statement. You have to accept the fact that the mothers life is no longer any more valuable than the fetus'. You have to accept that by NOT attacking abortion doctors you are knowingly allowing children to be murdured without acting. I agree that 99% of people who make that declaration probably could not "pull the trigger" when push came to shove. But I can at least find no fault with that logic. Those who try to have it both ways however are on indefensible ground.
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