Going into camp: which players have little to no guaranteed money?

[MrClean]

No... I argued ... for months before he was drafted... that he would play SS in the NFL.

Which he has...

That is mostly due to who else KC has in their LB corps. If he was with the Dolphins, he'd be an ILB. Off-ball. Even with KC has not played just SLB. He has also played some games at WLB and MLB.

 

[Feverdream]

That is mostly due to who else KC has in their LB corps. If he was with the Dolphins, he'd be an ILB. Off-ball. Even with KC has not played just SLB. He has also played some games at WLB and MLB.

On that, you and I will have to disagree.

 

[MrClean]

On that, you and I will have to disagree.

Here is someone else who disagrees with you, FWIW.

2022 Guide: What Ourlads’ NFL Scouting Services said about LEO CHENAL:

Wisconsin, 6025 250 4.53. Junior entry, two-year starter, Grantsburg, WI. Earned second-team All-America honors in addition to first-team All-Big 10 last fall. Winner of the 2021 Butkus-Fitzgerald Award, given to the conference’s top linebacker. High energy run stuffing inside linebacker. Plays downhill with solid instincts against the run. Inside run fits are normally precise and he keeps moving to the ball. Uses his hands to take on blocks and is powerful with stack and shed. Plays with an excellent pad level and while a blocker can get into his frame he doesn’t stay blocked. Adjusts well moving downhill and makes plays with second effort. Has a burst to the ball. He has alley to alley range and can make most plays in space. Fundamentally sound tackling skill he gathers and explodes into tackles. Stops ball carriers in their tracks with exceptional power and toughness. Excellent blitz skill he can get skinny to the line and get through gaps. Has a quick takeoff when blitzing with a knack for timing the snap. Has a decent feel for zone coverage and positions well versus multiple receivers. Does not close windows well and shows some hip tightness reacting. He makes many more tackles after the catch than plays on the ball. Can be too shallow in pass drops at times allowing throwing lanes on intermediate balls. Used more often to blitz on passing downs to play to his strength rather than keep him in coverage. Has not shown man to man cover skill. Agility is average and he is more of a straight-line player. At times will miss a shifty ball carrier or hang on with a shoestring tackle. Will fit as a Mike in a blitz heavy scheme. Some may see him as a two down linebacker but he will find a role. Should be solid on special teams.

2021 stats: 115 T, 18.5 TFL, 8 sacks, 5 QBH, 2 FF. Edge speed:left 2.06, right 2.27. OSR:4/42. Second/third round. (A-31, H-9 3/4, BP-34, 10-1.50).

 

[Feverdream]

Here is someone else who disagrees with you, FWIW.

2022 Guide: What Ourlads’ NFL Scouting Services said about LEO CHENAL:

Wisconsin, 6025 250 4.53. Junior entry, two-year starter, Grantsburg, WI. Earned second-team All-America honors in addition to first-team All-Big 10 last fall. Winner of the 2021 Butkus-Fitzgerald Award, given to the conference’s top linebacker. High energy run stuffing inside linebacker. Plays downhill with solid instincts against the run. Inside run fits are normally precise and he keeps moving to the ball. Uses his hands to take on blocks and is powerful with stack and shed. Plays with an excellent pad level and while a blocker can get into his frame he doesn’t stay blocked. Adjusts well moving downhill and makes plays with second effort. Has a burst to the ball. He has alley to alley range and can make most plays in space. Fundamentally sound tackling skill he gathers and explodes into tackles. Stops ball carriers in their tracks with exceptional power and toughness. Excellent blitz skill he can get skinny to the line and get through gaps. Has a quick takeoff when blitzing with a knack for timing the snap. Has a decent feel for zone coverage and positions well versus multiple receivers. Does not close windows well and shows some hip tightness reacting. He makes many more tackles after the catch than plays on the ball. Can be too shallow in pass drops at times allowing throwing lanes on intermediate balls. Used more often to blitz on passing downs to play to his strength rather than keep him in coverage. Has not shown man to man cover skill. Agility is average and he is more of a straight-line player. At times will miss a shifty ball carrier or hang on with a shoestring tackle. Will fit as a Mike in a blitz heavy scheme. Some may see him as a two down linebacker but he will find a role. Should be solid on special teams.

2021 stats: 115 T, 18.5 TFL, 8 sacks, 5 QBH, 2 FF. Edge speed:left 2.06, right 2.27. OSR:4/42. Second/third round. (A-31, H-9 3/4, BP-34, 10-1.50).

Well... this lists him as a ILB... then goes on and on about how he's too stiff for pass coverage.
In the NFL, that's a 2 down Elandon Roberts or a small Edge.

If anything, I think this analysis is mostly in line with what I've said.

 

[MrClean]

Well... this lists him as a ILB... then goes on and on about how he's too stiff for pass coverage.
In the NFL, that's a 2 down Elandon Roberts or a small Edge.

If anything, I think this analysis is mostly in line with what I've said.

It also says he has a decent feel for zone coverage and positions well versus multiple receivers. Does that sound like Roberts, or even Long, which is more pertinent to the Dolphins now? I sure don't see how you can gather that their analysis fits your opinion he is best suited for an edge defender. Their summation said clearly he will fit as a Mike in a blitz-heavy scheme. Considering when the 2022 draft was underway, Miami's DC was blitz-happy Josh Boyer. He'd have been a great fit, meaning Miami never would have needed to sign Long.

 

[Feverdream]

It also says he has a decent feel for zone coverage and positions well versus multiple receivers. Does that sound like Roberts, or even Long, which is more pertinent to the Dolphins now? I sure don't see how you can gather that their analysis fits your opinion he is best suited for an edge defender. Their summation said clearly he will fit as a Mike in a blitz-heavy scheme. Considering when the 2022 draft was underway, Miami's DC was blitz-happy Josh Boyer. He'd have been a great fit, meaning Miami never would have needed to sign Long.

Again... we already had AVG in house for those downs.
...and your guy pretty much granted that 'some teams will view him as a two down linebacker'... I'm one of those, and evidently, so is his current team.

 

[MrClean]

Again... we already had AVG in house for those downs.
...and your guy pretty much granted that 'some teams will view him as a two down linebacker'... I'm one of those, and evidently, so is his current team.

He would not have filled the same role as AVG if drafted by Miami. AVG was primarily an Edge after VF came along and only an Edge before that. Chenal would have filled the Elandon Roberts position, which later became the David Long position. With Tindall where do you suppose they ever intended to play him? I thought at the time they saw him as an eventual replacement for Baker. But as for him ever being that the notion went out the window with the addition of Jordyn Brooks.

 

[Feverdream]

He would not have filled the same role as AVG if drafted by Miami. AVG was primarily an Edge after VF came along and only an Edge before that. Chenal would have filled the Elandon Roberts position, which later became the David Long position. With Tindall where do you suppose they ever intended to play him? I thought at the time they saw him as an eventual replacement for Baker. But as for him ever being that the notion went out the window with the addition of Jordyn Brooks.

Again... 100% disagree.

Chenal is what he's shown. A small LB style edge who is too bulky for true inside work. ...and as he ages, he'll likely put on even more weight. Most do.

We are at an impass.

 

[MrClean]

Again... 100% disagree.

Chenal is what he's shown. A small LB style edge who is too bulky for true inside work. ...and as he ages, he'll likely put on even more weight. Most do.

We are at an impass.

Yes, that is why I attempted to veer toward your view of how Grier perceived using Tindall when he chose him over Chenal.

 

[Feverdream]

Yes, that is why I attempted to veer toward your view of how Grier perceived using Tindall when he chose him over Chenal.

Agreed on that part. Tindall was viewed as a potential replacement for Baker...
WSLB, a more expensive position.

Looks like a miss, but I think it's still the right way to draft.

 

[MrClean]

Agreed on that part. Tindall was viewed as a potential replacement for Baker...
WSLB, a more expensive position.

Looks like a miss, but I think it's still the right way to draft.

As the roster stands now, since we can be pretty sure Tindall won't displace Brooks or Long for starting snaps, I'd consider using him as an outside pass rusher on passing downs where he would not have to key and diagnose much, just pin his ears back and go after the QB. With the uncertainty of when the starting edges will return, we could use some pass-rush juice in the meantime. Besides Barrett of course.

 

[Feverdream]

As the roster stands now, since we can be pretty sure Tindall won't displace Brooks or Long for starting snaps, I'd consider using him as an outside pass rusher on passing downs where he would not have to key and diagnose much, just pin his ears back and go after the QB. With the uncertainty of when the starting edges will return, we could use some pass-rush juice in the meantime. Besides Barrett of course.

Probably not a bad idea.

He actually looked useable in the preseason last year... but then got almost zero playing time. It could be that he fell afoul of Fangio and his rigid ways... or maybe he just sucked in practice?

He hasn't failed on the field yet, so we can still wonder how he'd fare if we actually used him.

I doubt if he's got much hope left, but we just haven't seen enough to really know. Let's see if they dump him after camp.

 

[MrClean]

Probably not a bad idea.

He actually looked useable in the preseason last year... but then got almost zero playing time. It could be that he fell afoul of Fangio and his rigid ways... or maybe he just sucked in practice?

He hasn't failed on the field yet, so we can still wonder how he'd fare if we actually used him.

I doubt if he's got much hope left, but we just haven't seen enough to really know. Let's see if they dump him after camp.

He gets plenty of STs snaps, so they will at least need him there. Especially now with the change in KOs. Your cover men having speed should come in handy. We'll keep at least 4 and IMO, Riley isn't a lock.

 

[Feverdream]

He gets plenty of STs snaps, so they will at least need him there. Especially now with the change in KOs. Your cover men having speed should come in handy. We'll keep at least 4 and IMO, Riley isn't a lock.

No, he isn't. Walker took his spot.

I like Riley as a reserve, but we may not need him.

 

[miamiron]

Tindall pisses me off because Grier passed on Leo Chenal to take him. FTR, I was begging for the pick to be Chenal as soon as Miami went on the clock. Nothing has happened so far to indicate Grier made the smart choice.
I did not want EZ either with the next pick. I wanted Zach Tom the most there.

Kinda idiotic to be upset at the player, he didn't draft himself.