My uneducated take on the pass offense | Page 3 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

My uneducated take on the pass offense

hmichaels said:
feel free to roast me

is the boundary pass not a thing for McDaniel?

2 years in a row our offense runs down/gets figured out.

do we ever threaten the boundary?

were Claypool and Ezuzanma bad or just not valued?

is this a Shanahan offense thing? not for Tua thing? a shitty OL thing?

I fear another year of throwing into windows with fast pace until it is taken away and then no answer
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Hill actually had a highlight boundry catch early last year.

Overall it's a low percentage play. And McDaniel did try it a few times, but we don't have a WR who runs it well so it wasn't a huge part of the offense.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
As evidence, how many times did TT throw a screen and 4-5 defenders were within 5 yds of the receiver?
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Just about every time they run this play it results in a loss of yardage, basically making it a wasted play. My biggest problem with it is that I don't know who exactly should get the blame when this play gets blown up. For example, Tua takes the snap, looks to his right, and there are one or more defenders heading toward Hill (or ?). At this point, the smart thing to do is for Tua to either immediately throw the ball to a second option, move around and look for someone else for positive yards, or take off running.

However, even with defenders running right at the receiver, Tua still throws the ball to him, even though it will mean a loss of yards. My question is why throw that pass and lose yards? Does Tua not see those defenders ready to make the tackle? Does he feel that he doesn't have time to look for someone else because of the o-line? Even if he has no time or there is no other option, Tua could always throw the ball away, which would result in no loss of yards. Is Tua making the decision to still throw that ball, or is McDaniel saying that's the play he wants, and not to change it? We don't know.
 
gofins60 said:
Just about every time they run this play it results in a loss of yardage, basically making it a wasted play. My biggest problem with it is that I don't know who exactly should get the blame when this play gets blown up. For example, Tua takes the snap, looks to his right, and there are one or more defenders heading toward Hill (or ?). At this point, the smart thing to do is for Tua to either immediately throw the ball to a second option, move around and look for someone else for positive yards, or take off running.

However, even with defenders running right at the receiver, Tua still throws the ball to him, even though it will mean a loss of yards. My question is why throw that pass and lose yards? Does Tua not see those defenders ready to make the tackle? Does he feel that he doesn't have time to look for someone else because of the o-line? Even if he has no time or there is no other option, Tua could always throw the ball away, which would result in no loss of yards. Is Tua making the decision to still throw that ball, or is McDaniel saying that's the play he wants, and not to change it? We don't know.
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Won't disagree. we know TT doesn't have time to go to a 2nd read or to audible out if he sees the D correctly. I will add, however, that's step 2. For that many defenders to read the screen correctly, the D sees something pre-snap or at the snap. It could be TT looking at the receiver during dropback, but I doubt it. Could the receiver be giving it away? I doubt EVERY screen target would make the same mistake.
Tangentially, how often does TT get 'the play' and an audible option? No idea. Is there even another receiver running a route? No idea. We know the D reacts so fast, they are reading something.
 
Well to the boundary is interesting in nfl terms since the hashmarks are much tighter than college and HS. There are all sorts of unique ways offenses space and manipulate defense at the other two levels.

The issue resides more with having an inconsistent group of guys who can't win contested balls...

Wilson was never able to be that guy as much as he has the body for it. It's a shame because he flashed at points.

Claypool was the low risk chance they decided to take. It was clear he was not as intelligent as the Dolphins had hoped. For as big as he is, he just isn't the nuanced receiver McDaniel likes in his offense.

I think right now they are looking for their sanu or deebo; a guy that can move around but provide mismatches with their size and athletic ability.
 
hmichaels said:
feel free to roast me

is the boundary pass not a thing for McDaniel?

2 years in a row our offense runs down/gets figured out.

do we ever threaten the boundary?

were Claypool and Ezuzanma bad or just not valued?

is this a Shanahan offense thing? not for Tua thing? a shitty OL thing?

I fear another year of throwing into windows with fast pace until it is taken away and then no answer
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You are spot on. McD has not adjusted well when teams figure him out. Last year buffalo showed the blue print and we were nothing like the unstopable offense of the 1st handful of games.

Year before the chargers showed a GREAT plan against us on sunday night and teams used it against us from then on out and the adjustment was never neutralized by mcd.

I believe this whole season hangs on the offensive staff coming up with a plan to thwart the buffalo plan our staff never found a consistant answer too last year. Teams will use it until miami thwarts it.

And if they do and another team finds a new plan during the season
McGenious and company better find an in season fix in a hurry.

NOTE: the TE game is crucial. If mcd gets that going it will be hard for defenses to completely take away hill and waddle with our te' having their way with lb's.

They will have to take away personel on doubling hill and waddle to stop the bleeding our te's inflict in the middle and seams.

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Sticky Gloves said:
"We saw that when Tua took deeper drops, the offensive line struggled."

What's that sentence based on? Do we have any data of how many deep drops Tua took and the pressure he faced when taking a deep drop?
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Just by watching the games that's pretty apparent. Wasn't it?

That's the primary reason Tua was getting rid of the ball so quickly. That and to avoid injuries.

I thought the line held up better when Williams was healthy, especially versus inside pressure.
 
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MrChadRico said:
Hill actually had a highlight boundry catch early last year.

Overall it's a low percentage play. And McDaniel did try it a few times, but we don't have a WR who runs it well so it wasn't a huge part of the offense.
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Was that the one where Tua misheard McDaniel and called the wrong play? Now that's catching the defense off guard!! LOL! ;-)
 
EJay said:
“Uneducated take” provides an out wrt providing supporting evidence.

Making unsubstantiated claims is much, much easier.
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Yep! it simply isn't the case and it aint close.
Mach2 said:
Well, that doesn't really show the volume for each area, only the results from whatever number of attempts.
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It would be so easy for them to include the number of attempts in those charts... No clue why they dont?

Either way, this one does.

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They throw more outside than in the middle by a good margin either short or deep... At least OP mentioned it was an uneducated opinion in the title so there's that I guess...
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
Just by watching the games that's pretty apparent. Wasn't it?

That's the primary reason Tua was getting rid of the ball so quickly. That and to avoid injuries.

I thought the line held up better when Williams was healthy, especially versus inside pressure.
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Tua doesn't really face any pressure. The offense is based on just getting the ball out quickly to spots. Tua rarely took deep drops because the offense isn't about long running plays and reading the field. I don't think it's a line problem, just play design.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
Tua doesn't really face any pressure. The offense is based on just getting the ball out quickly to spots. Tua rarely took deep drops because the offense isn't about long running plays and reading the field. I don't think it's a line problem, just play design.
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Disagree with most of this.

It isn't a viable and sustainable philosophy against the better defenses in the league.

It would also preclude the QB from going through any progressions, check downs or allowing any route combinations to develop. That severely handcuffs game planning.

I do agree that a lot of it was by design. It was design out of necessity, though, rather than out of preference.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
I don't have raw data, but you can just look at his throwing charts. Throws are rarely completed on sideline boundaries.
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Actually, he completes his share of short and intermediate passes toward the sidelines. He doesn't attempt that many deep, though.
 
Mach2 said:
Disagree with most of this.

It isn't a viable and sustainable philosophy against the better defenses in the league.

It would also preclude the QB from going through any progressions, check downs or allowing any route combinations to develop. That severely handcuffs game planning.

I do agree that a lot of it was by design. It was design out of necessity, though, rather than out of preference.
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I agree it isn't viable and sustainable, but that's what the design is.

Necessity to ensure Tua is hit as little as possible coming off a 2022 season where his career was in jeopardy. Seems like physically they are easing up on this philosophy by trimming him down. Tua was actually hit the least in the league, by a LOT. If they want to change the philosphy, Tua will be hit a good deal more, and whether his body will be able to hold up to a different style of offense is TBD.
 
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