Our new defense | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Our new defense

Patrick Surtiain II

Turned 24 three weeks ago.

Pass it on.
 
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1972forever said:
Queen was not terrible in his first 4 years. In fact he averaged 113 combined tackles over 4 years with the Ravens.
Last year he played at a very high level but he still played at a high level throughout his time with the Ravens.

Comparing Tindall to Queen is laughable. Tindall wasn’t even a starter at Georgia and he just hasn’t shown the ability or awareness at the NFL level.

I think him being an okay ST player is the best we will ever see from Tindall. He is a bottom of the roster type player at best and I’ll be surprised if he is still on the roster beyond the 2024 season.
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Agree. Tindall is an amazing athlete but hasn't been able to master the mental part of NFL speed/complexity. I'm pessimistic and he's running out of chances.
 
Stoobz said:
It's going to be interesting because so many people think Weaver is simply going to run what Baltimore did and I don't think that will be the case.

I think the biggest change will be the IDL rotation and the snap counts being more levelled out for those guys.

Something people haven't discussed is the high number of 3 safety looks Baltimore ran - very close to what we did. It's practically a standard in the NFL these days. Thanks, Fangio ;)
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I think the high number of 3 Safety sets has been discussed a ton. To the point that people assume it's a given. I'm not sure that's true. I think it depends on the secondary players you have that can both cover (man or zone depending on your predominant scheme) and who can support the run. I think Baltimore and Miami last season, ran a ton of 3 Safety sets b/c that was the personnel that fit. If you have more CBs that are more adept at man coverage (as I suspect we'll run vs the zone predominant scheme under Fangio) and are good in run support then I would expect more CBs and 2 Safety looks.

IMO our personnel has more CBs than Ss who fit the bill and play that slot CB/S that was filled by a S last season and in Baltimore. Ramsey, Fuller, Kohou, Needham and Bonner all fit that role and I would say they are better than our current third S options, Campbell and some rooks. Now obviously, we may sign another S post June 1st, and we probably should, but I still think it'll be more about personnel than positions.
 
PHINSfan said:
You could be right. What worries me is that this new defense being installed may be too complicated for our young guys to grasp early in the season. Tindal, for one, has been known to have had issues learning the previous defense.
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My understanding is that the big change from Fangio is that Fangio used a very complex coverage scheme but fairly simple fronts. The Baltimore defense and presumably Weaver, use simpler coverage schemes and mix up the pressure fronts more.

Reportedly the fronts aren't really that difficult for players to learn. It seems to me that they mostly rely on having lots personnel that are very similar. They can all rush or drop to specific landmarks. It's fairly simple for the front 7 guy to know which he's doing. The complexity comes for the OL and QB b/c they don't know who's doing what. They have to make a quick adjustment once the front player declares what he's doing.

One difference that I do expect is for Miami to run more man coverage than Baltimore did. I think Miami's secondary personnel is more suited to man coverage.
 
1972forever said:
Queen was not terrible in his first 4 years. In fact he averaged 113 combined tackles over 4 years with the Ravens.
Last year he played at a very high level but he still played at a high level throughout his time with the Ravens.

Comparing Tindall to Queen is laughable. Tindall wasn’t even a starter at Georgia and he just hasn’t shown the ability or awareness at the NFL level.

I think him being an okay ST player is the best we will ever see from Tindall. He is a bottom of the roster type player at best and I’ll be surprised if he is still on the roster beyond the 2024 season.
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Right, that's why I said 2 1/2 years and not 4 years. 4 - 2 1/2 = 1 1/2, and he was good for 1 1/2 years.

Do you really not understand why I brought up Queen? And, do you really think I'm comparing them beyond noting the benefit of the defense, because I had been discussing how the defense is actually less complicated to learn than most?

The entire point of the post was to say, IF it ever clicks for Tindall it will probably be in this defense.
 
Carne Asada said:
More than the 3 down linemen sub-packages, I think the main change on our defense will be the coverage scheme.

Based on Weaver's lineage and our personnel decisions I think we'll no longer play as much cover 6 or as much cloud concepts or even as much zone at all.

We're most likely going back to lots of man and cover 3.

I think this is good because the Bills' and Chiefs' main threat will be their TEs and these schemes are much better at covering them than zones.

It surprises me this has barely been talked about around here.

What do y'all think?
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Playing man against Allen is tough, you have to do a lot of things well. Have to try and contain him to the pocket which is very tough and have to be able to get pressure up the middle, which outside of Seiler we don't have.

Playing zone is also tough unless you have quality coverage linebackers and as we saw last year, we didn't have that. But at least the defense has more eyes on the QB and with Allen leads to more picks.
 
rafael said:
I think the high number of 3 Safety sets has been discussed a ton. To the point that people assume it's a given. I'm not sure that's true. I think it depends on the secondary players you have that can both cover (man or zone depending on your predominant scheme) and who can support the run. I think Baltimore and Miami last season, ran a ton of 3 Safety sets b/c that was the personnel that fit. If you have more CBs that are more adept at man coverage (as I suspect we'll run vs the zone predominant scheme under Fangio) and are good in run support then I would expect more CBs and 2 Safety looks.

IMO our personnel has more CBs than Ss who fit the bill and play that slot CB/S that was filled by a S last season and in Baltimore. Ramsey, Fuller, Kohou, Needham and Bonner all fit that role and I would say they are better than our current third S options, Campbell and some rooks. Now obviously, we may sign another S post June 1st, and we probably should, but I still think it'll be more about personnel than positions.
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Trust me, I am all for this. I have zero clue as to what we will run, just gathering a bit of info here and there. I'm sure it will change as the season wears on and they work on what's best.

There's an old question about deciding between a 4-3 or 3-4 defense - it depends on if you have more better LBs or more better DL.

With the advent of hybrid players, it's somewhat outdated, of course, but the premise is still there, fit your schemes to your personnel.
 
I am wondering if on definitive passing downs, does he just stand-up Chubb, Phillips, Robinson, and Barrett or Kamara on the defensive line and let them stunt and penetrate to collapse the pocket with seven DBs behind them in a combo-coverage scheme.
 
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Stoobz said:
Trust me, I am all for this. I have zero clue as to what we will run, just gathering a bit of info here and there. I'm sure it will change as the season wears on and they work on what's best.

There's an old question about deciding between a 4-3 or 3-4 defense - it depends on if you have more better LBs or more better DL.

With the advent of hybrid players, it's somewhat outdated, of course, but the premise is still there, fit your schemes to your personnel.
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"Different courses for different horses". - LOL
What if we simultaneously apply the best of both worlds? - LOL
 
1972forever said:
My concern too. The Ravens didn’t choose to promote him to their DC after they lost their 2023 DC. Weaver also had the 30th rated defense in his one year as the Texans DC in 2020.

Just because he was a good position coach with the Ravens doesn’t mean he will be a good DC. I hope he will turn out to be a quality DC but he needs to show he can be much better than he was when he was the Texans DC
or his tenure with the Dolphins will be very short.
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Before trying to use his one year as the Texans DC as evidence of anything, you should dig into it a little. Look at the personnel he had to work with. He had Watt in his last year with the team on the DL, but nothing else to go with him. Zach Cunningham at LB and little else. Eric Reid in the secondary and little else. 2020 wasn't an outlier for the Texans either. The defense wasn't good in 2019, 2021, or 2022.
 
PHINSfan said:
You could be right. What worries me is that this new defense being installed may be too complicated for our young guys to grasp early in the season. Tindal, for one, has been known to have had issues learning the previous defense.
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Complicated???

The whole reason with this new hire was to get tougher and easier to learn D and getting everyone prepared including rookies.

Where did the news come from that this is supposed to be a complicated defense?
 
MrClean said:
I'm concerned about the quality of the run defense without Wilkins. If Weaver can field a strong run stuffing unit from his motley collection of IDL misfits, plus Sieler of course, it will be his biggest accomplishment. I'll say right here and now though that Jordyn Brooks is a huge upgrade over Baker in every way, but the biggest difference will be in run defense. I never could understand the fuss over Baker and his string of tackles 7 yards downfield. Brooks looks to me like a stud when filling downhill in the alley.
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I agree. I think Flo liked him better than McMillan and McKinney back in the day because he got himself mammoths on the DL to begin with.
 
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