Oh boy, now you’ve done it Mello, you have awaken the beast that is Cicumstances in 1…2…3…
Oh boy, now you’ve done it Mello, you have awaken the beast that is Cicumstances in 1…2…3…
lol……lol awwww **** that was funny
I'd like to add let's win the division a year or two in a row first but it ain't all on Tua and I have no man love for him. Our coaching and team dynamics/health have been just as "at fault" for the lack of success as Tua.
First...
If I have to explain why Burrow became so beloved to football fans across the nation I don't know what to say. You had to have watched LSU's remarkable 2019 season. Think about how talented that QB class was and consider what it took for Burrow to be the unanimous #1 overall pick. Even everyone here would've taken Burrow if Miami was sitting at #1.
And if taking Cincinnati to the Super Bowl 2 years later while beating great teams in the Playoffs on the road doesn't tick a box, I don't know what does. Talk to me when Miami's offense has done that.
Underplaying someone else's QB/offense because it's been so successful comes off like all those fans who talked so much crap about Brady. The fact that Burrow did that while suffering an ACL injury as a rookie only adds to how impressive those accomplishments were.
Burrow isn't my team's QB but he's a remarkably talented player and he deserves the utmost respect. Knocking him and talking as though all QBs should get the same level of respect is just wrong. The NFL is about results and like it or not, Burrow has delivered incredibly in that department.
Second...
Talking about how bad Tua's coaching was also doesn't make a ton of sense because people love to talk up Tua's W/L record which is partly based on how those Flores-led teams did. If those teams were really that bad (like Herbert's have been) then Tua's W/L record wouldn't be what it is.
What you're really telling me is that Tua wasn't in a "Tua-friendly" offense in '20 and '21 like he is now and that he became less productive as a result and was unhappy and entirely distressed WRT his own abilities.
That's all old news at this point, but the fact that Miami was surely considering what options they'd have in replacing him and needed to go out and spend millions to build an unconventional offense around him is exactly what creates questions about a guys universal value.
The national media doesn't love Tua because you couldn't just plug him into any type of offense and get elite highlights. Why that's shocking to some I don't know.
Miami went well out of their way to make Tua successful. Now it's time for Tua and this offense to do what we saw Brady and Burrow do on their teams--lead us to wins in big games. To this point we've had very little of that.
Artdnj's entire post started off by pointing out that the "plagued by injuries" label that Tua has is no more relevant to him than to Burrow or Lamar Jackson...and he's right.
Regarding the coaching, that's also a legitimate point. Burrow has enjoyed the same HC and OC for his entire career. Jackson has had the same HC and 3 OC, with a nice stretch of continuity between 2019-2022. Tua's had 2 HC and 4 OC since he was drafted (and yes, I'm counting the co-coordinators as two people, because it was the dumbest thing in the history of OC outside of New England.) Is that the end-all be-all for judging QBs? Of course not. But dismissing it as old news and disregarding it entirely doesn't pass the sniff test either.
It's also kinda weird to me that you bring up Burrow's college success as a senior and give him props for coming back from an ACL injury in his rookie season, but don't mention how Tua was lauded as the best QB in college football from the time he came in at halftime for Alabama until he got hurt...or give props to him for coming back from a hip injury that was much murkier, uncommon and more severe than an ACL tear.
As far as this direct quote: "the fact that Miami was surely considering what options they'd have in replacing him and needed to go out and spend millions to build an unconventional offense around him is exactly what creates questions about a guys universal value."
This is what I was referencing earlier today. This is not a fact. It's actually borderline dishonest.
Finally, I have no idea what Tua would have done in a "non-Shanahan" offense in 2023. But neither do you.
Honestly, what's your point?Well, that's just changing facts.
It's very obvious that many Dolphins fans are extremely jealous of the national media praising other QBs and not doing so with Tua.
Like it or not, people want national respect. You can't block that out. Fans certainly can't. They crave that national buzz. Unfortunately, Miami's not getting that upper tier respect until they win something.
And no, until Tua can throw it 80 yards at a pro-day no one's going to fawn over him based on his physical potential. That's just a fact that fans have to make peace with. Tua is the type of QB that has to do it through wins and clutch performances.
Obviously, my issue here isn't with Tua as much as it's with biased fans who always want an equal amount of attention and praise to go to Miami even when they lose, often doing so tripping over their own two feet. The NFL doesn't work that way. Either you're praised for your physical attributes like Herbert, Murray, Lawrence and Jackson are or you're praised for winning in the clutch.
Tua's option is to win in the clutch. So far, this offense has come up short so the fans can eat it. Miami will get love when they earn it in Dec-Jan.
I root for the Dolphins but I'm not going to bluster and blow smoke about our horrible record in Dec-Jan. That just sounds pathetic and out of touch.
Oh, no. Facts are facts. Tua got injured in every season from '18 - '22.
That's 5 straight years where he missed time, got pulled, was on the bench recovering or had his overall abilities significantly limited for some injury-related reason.
I'm sorry but, no, to act like Tua's injury history is the same as everyone else's is covering up reality. It's is a lie as far as I see it.
I agree but you're starting a different conversation.
Keep in mind that I wasn't attacking Tua. I was attacking the logic being used by a subset of his supporter(s). Your defending Tua doesn't really invalidate the point I was making before.
I fully agree that the Dolphins did no favors to Tua however they did supply with him a solid defense that made it relatively easy for him to achieve a .500-ish record. Had the team been out and out bad, Tua would've surely had a losing record in years 1 & 2.
Ugh.
I didn't say anything about Tua's injuries because I was speaking specifically about Burrow's accomplishments between '19 - '21. I don't think Tua factors into what LSU or the Bengals were doing in that stretch of time. My point was to make clear how knocking Burrow in an attempt to lower the bar for Tua isn't going to garner support.
This is actually hurting Tua's image btw, his supporters being so sensitive that compliments aimed in other directions are taken as insults to Tua.
No fan wants to feel like they have to be a homer in order to defend their team. We all want the team's success to stand on its own.
It's not a fact. It's inference.
If you're a team that drafts a QB and that QB isn't particularly great for 2 straight years you're going to be considering what options you have for the future outside of just that QB. Even we were questioning Tua coming out of 2021.
Again, if basic inference offends you, you're too sensitive.
Tua played NFL football in '20 and '21 in a "non-Shanahan" offense so....there's that!
And to argue that the Dolphins offense isn't pioneering some really innovative stuff that sets it apart is just ignorant.
I think the bigger question is why some feel the need to constantly defend anyone who's a Dolphin from any & all forms of comparison and critique. They're helicopter fans. That fanatical behavior only serves to irritate the more middle of the road fans who I'm quite confident are in the majority having seen a multitude of hyped-up players and coaches come and go, knowing that a bit of healthy skepticism is never a bad thing.
It ends up being the fans who feel it's their job to constantly defend the current regime who are the most annoying.
Honestly, what's your point?
Most fans couldn't care less about what the media thinks...
You acknowledge there are many QBs who haven't won squat but are still praised because of their physical attributes but then you say it's pathetic and out of touch if a dolphins fan questions the media on this clear bias towards physical attributes.
QBs should be judged based on their play on the field and nothing else.
If you rank someone higher because of physical attributes when the other QB has clearly been better on the field the last two years then why should we care what you think?
Is this thread still related to a contract?
Oh, no. Facts are facts. Tua got injured in every season from '18 - '22.
That's 5 straight years where he missed time, got pulled, was on the bench recovering or had his overall abilities significantly limited for some injury-related reason.
I'm sorry but, no, to act like Tua's injury history is the same as everyone else's is covering up reality. It's is a lie as far as I see it.
I agree but you're starting a different conversation.
Keep in mind that I wasn't attacking Tua. I was attacking the logic being used by a subset of his supporter(s). Your defending Tua doesn't really invalidate the point I was making before.
I fully agree that the Dolphins did no favors to Tua however they did supply with him a solid defense that made it relatively easy for him to achieve a .500-ish record. Had the team been out and out bad, Tua would've surely had a losing record in years 1 & 2.
Ugh.
I didn't say anything about Tua's injuries because I was speaking specifically about Burrow's accomplishments between '19 - '21. I don't think Tua factors into what LSU or the Bengals were doing in that stretch of time. My point was to make clear how knocking Burrow in an attempt to lower the bar for Tua isn't going to garner support.
This is actually hurting Tua's image btw, his supporters being so sensitive that compliments aimed in other directions are taken as insults to Tua.
No fan wants to feel like they have to be a homer in order to defend their team. We all want the team's success to stand on its own.
It's not a fact. It's inference.
If you're a team that drafts a QB and that QB isn't particularly great for 2 straight years you're going to be considering what options you have for the future outside of just that QB. Even we were questioning Tua coming out of 2021.
Again, if basic inference offends you, you're too sensitive.
Tua played NFL football in '20 and '21 in a "non-Shanahan" offense so....there's that!
And to argue that the Dolphins offense isn't pioneering some really innovative stuff that sets it apart is just ignorant.
I think the bigger question is why some feel the need to constantly defend anyone who's a Dolphin from any & all forms of comparison and critique. They're helicopter fans. That fanatical behavior only serves to irritate the more middle of the road fans who I'm quite confident are in the majority having seen a multitude of hyped-up players and coaches come and go, knowing that a bit of healthy skepticism is never a bad thing.
It ends up being the fans who feel it's their job to constantly defend the current regime who are the most annoying.
About damn time JWS! Kidding aside, I will always love our Fins and I am good with Tua but player and teams have limits, can’t print money like another entity we know….i actually think Tua will be reasonable.Ok in that case I fully concur
Actually, the textbook definition of fan is:I think the bigger question is why some feel the need to constantly defend anyone who's a Dolphin from any & all forms of comparison and critique. They're helicopter fans. That fanatical behavior only serves to irritate the more middle of the road fans who I'm quite confident are in the majority having seen a multitude of hyped-up players and coaches come and go, knowing that a bit of healthy skepticism is never a bad thing.
It ends up being the fans who feel it's their job to constantly defend the current regime who are the most annoying.