Are The Dolphins and Tua Further Apart Than People Think? | Page 18 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Are The Dolphins and Tua Further Apart Than People Think?

phinsforlife said:
thanks. not to mention, i started that comment by clearly stating "these are my guesses." further, look what i ended with. it is just unreal
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Careful, you might cross the line and start "misleading" those who log on and take everything they read as FACT!


 
PappyK said:
...it really boils down to if they think their coach can make [a QB] excel with their skill set.
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Kind of.

I think GMs are hoping to find someone who can (1) transcend being a "system" player and (2) possesses the physical ability for potential Playoff success.

To that point, I would think GMs across the NFL would largely favor Herbert for his availability and scheme-transcendent physical attributes. There's more upside in that given that both Herbert and Tua have similar career numbers in many categories like Y/A, TD%, INT%, etc.

You pointed out how McDaniel is the "perfect solution" for Tua which pretty much defines him as a system-specific player. When Tua was put in a lackluster situation, his efficiency declined and his production was generally awful. Put in similar circumstances, Herbert's production remained a bit better, adding credence to the idea that his floor is higher.

It was when Tua was put in the ideal situation that we saw him produce with an efficiency that Herbert has yet to reach. This was the whole argument for drafting Tua over Herbert >> that there was ultimately more upside in Tua (which I think '22 and '23 have shown is there in some form).

So it's really a question for the GM as to whether he wants to deal with the headache of trying to build the perfect "Tua-style" offense and I would wager that most GMs wouldn't want that problem knowing that the Tua offense has performed so badly in clutch moments and has yet to carry it's team to any sort of Playoff success. The "upside" hasn't really proven to have much "up" in it.

You add in the injuries and physical limitation that Tua has and I would wager GMs would take the easier choice of Herbert almost every time.

FWIW, I don't love Herbert. I think he lacks top-tier efficiency but I would assume most GMs probably see far less headache in working around a more conventional QB like Herbert who's floor is higher, stays healthy more often, can put together some gawdy numbers and who requires less specialized treatment.



Remember, Tua was the preferred prospect back during a time when many looked at Justin Herbert as Ryan Tannehill 2.0. Now that Herbert has proven to be far more than that, it's understandable that his stock is actually probably a bit higher than Tua, particularly when Tua has been given 2 great chances in '22 and '23 and yet nothing's come of it.
 
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Mello Yello said:
Kind of.

I think GMs are hoping to find someone who can (1) transcend being a "system" player and (2) possesses the physical ability for potential Playoff success.

To that point, I would think GMs across the NFL would largely favor Herbert for his availability and scheme-transcendent physical attributes. There's more upside in that given that both Herbert and Tua have similar career numbers in many categories like Y/A, TD%, INT%, etc.

You pointed out how McDaniel is the "perfect solution" for Tua which pretty much defines him as a system-specific player. When Tua was put in a lackluster situation, his efficiency declined and his production was generally awful. Put in similar circumstances, Herbert's production remained a bit better, adding credence to the idea that his floor is higher.

It was when Tua was put in the ideal situation that we saw him produce with an efficiency that Herbert is yet to reach. So it's really a question for the GM as to whether he wants to deal with the headache of trying to build the perfect "Tua-style" offense and I would wager that most GMs wouldn't want that problem, particularly when the Tua offense has performed so badly in clutch moments and has yet to carry it's team to any sort of Playoff success. You add in the injuries and physical limitation that Tua has and I would wager GMs would take the easier choice of Herbert almost every time.

FWIW, I don't love Herbert. I think he lacks top-tier efficiency but I would assume most GMs probably see far less headache in working around a more conventional QB like Herbert who's floor is higher, stays healthy more often, can put together some gawdy numbers and who requires less specialized treatment.
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I don't really view Tua as a 'system' guy but more of a pocket passer. McDaniel had studied Tua and found skills where he excelled(everyone said he couldn't throw deep, pretty sure that he changed that narrative) and was able to maximize them. Flores and that two year period was awful qb management!
Herbert had Keenan and Williams and hunter Henry and ekeler as skill positions too
What about his OL.. how would you rank them vs the miami OL?

Too many variables for me to give credence to 'who is better'.. I didn't elaborate earlier because I had already felt I was getting long-winded. But today's nfl gm's mostly desire bigger, mobile, athletic qb's. They are definitely highly valued and Herbert always fit that mold way more then Tua.
 
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PappyK said:
I don't really view Tua as a 'system' guy but more of a pocket passer. McDaniel had studied Tua and found skills where he excelled(everyone said he couldn't throw deep, pretty sure that he changed that narrative) and was able to maximize them. Flores and that two year period was awful qb management!
Herbert had Keenan and Williams and hunter Henry and ekeler as skill positions too
What about his OL.. how would you rank them vs the miami OL?

Too many variables for me to give credence to 'who is better'.. I didn't elaborate earlier because I had already felt I was getting long-winded. But today's nfl gm's mostly desire bigger, mobile, athletic qb's. They are definitely highly valued and Herbert always fit that mold way more then Tua.
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Interesting the height fixation by some.
Tua is 6'1
Mahomes is 6'2

Maybe Tua is focusing on gaining one in this off season.
 
JamesWsenior said:
I

Interesting the height fixation by some.
Tua is 6'1
Mahomes is 6'2

Maybe Tua is focusing on gaining one in this off season.
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You have to actually question the athleticism issue as well. Herbert averages around 227 yards rushing per season while Tua is around 100 yards. Neither stat is anything to brag about
 
NBP81 said:
Skimming through this thread, there's one thing I'm 100% sure about... When Tua signs his contract before the season starts, and he will, there are a couple handful of posters that will enter meltdown mode abruptly...
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Why do you think the Dolphins are in any rush to get this done before the season starts?
 
NBP81 said:
Skimming through this thread, there's one thing I'm 100% sure about... When Tua signs his contract before the season starts, and he will, there are a couple handful of posters that will enter meltdown mode abruptly...
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Meh, most readily admit it's almost a foregone conclusion.

They just don't agree with it.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
Why do you think the Dolphins are in any rush to get this done before the season starts?
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Fins aren't but there's no ****ing way Tua's agent let's him play a meaningful snap of football before he gets additional guaranteed money... It's all moot because anyone with a clue, including the Fins and Tua, understand why...
 
NBP81 said:
Fins aren't but there's no ****ing way Tua's agent let's him play a meaningful snap of football before he gets additional guaranteed money... It's all moot because anyone with a clue, including the Fins and Tua, understand why...
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Tua's agent probably would want Tua to play hardball and sit out. So unless that happens, and he said he wouldn't, I'm not seeing it.
 
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