How would getting a 1st rd 3rd WR change our scheme? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How would getting a 1st rd 3rd WR change our scheme?

Carne Asada said:
I don't love the OL prospects that'll be available. It just feels like they would either ride the bench at LT or start at OG.

Just because Tunsil did it it doesn't mean you'll find a year 1 iOL starter who can also start at LT next year.

If we pick Barton or Fuatanu or some other tweener I think we would end up with iOLs we wouldn't give a second contract to.

If we pick Latham or some other LT prospect, I'm afraid they would end up red shirting their rookie year.

An Edge or WR have better immediate impact than a LT and better long term positional value than an iOL.
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It is reasonable to assume that there will be at least a couple available that do not require a redshirt year. Would I love Guyton to fall, of course, but I doubt that will occur.

Barton looks darn ready, he can play tackle but like Hunt he will be an All-Pro at guard.
Rosengarten looks impressive at the senior practice clips I've seen. SFO seems to like him quite a bit.
People like Fuaga quite a bit
Latham could be sitting there, but I worry he is a bit of a Leatherwood type player
Jackson Powers-Johnson looked impressive but he is guard/center only
People like Sumataia as well, but he is only a guard and attempt to keep him at tackle will be ugly.


Redshirt tackles
Watch the kid from Yale Amegagjie, his feet and wingspan are impressive.
Patrick Paul out of Houston needs a little work but the tools are there.
 
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GRYPHONK said:
Yes, yes yes. 100% agreed.

Tua was the #1 QB against the blitz last year.

When teams realized they can rush 4 defenders, drop 6-7 into coverage and STILL disrupt Tua within 2.1 seconds. Everything changed.

You need to prepare and focus on having a line that can actually pass block when teams rush only 4. Because when you play the Eagles/ Bill Chiefs etc.

You can still expect Tua to get the ball out in 2.28 seconds. That's fine.

But there's a big diferrence when he's getting the ball out in 2.28 seconds from a clean pocket as opposed to defenders consistently breathing down his neck.

The math is simple.
2.28 seconds was the fastest release in football.
He had 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

Get the guy a lime that can pass block for even 2.3 seconds and see what happens.

When our line was healthy and could block our offense was a Juggernaut.

By the end of the season, we kept running the same 7 or 8 plays because our line was putrid.

Look.at hilites
Look at the diferrence in play calling first 11 weeks as opposed to the last 7.

Fix the dang line.

No matter what defenders we have or WRS we have won't matter if we are only having 2.1 seconds of clean pocket time.

LT- Armstead is great. But you expect him to get hurt. His current backups were contributors to that 2.1 seconds.
LG- Wynn is great but less reliable then Armstead. Again, his backups contributed to thar 2.1 seconds.
C- Downgrade. Worst pass blocking C last year. They say he's a scheme fit. Wr shall see. We still have no actual backup C.
RG- Eichenberg..... Need I say more.

If this is truly the line that's expected to make it all work... well, atleast the first 6-8 weeks will be enjoyable again.
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Honestly, I think most of us would agree that if Miami fixed the offensive line that would make the biggest impact for the Dolphins.

It might not be exciting, but if Grier went back-to-back offensive line that could solve a lot of issues.

Still, have to be flexible enough to grab "elite" talent if it falls into your lap. I don't think Thomas is quite there, but he could develop into an elite wr. Verse could be. A couple of corners.

I also think offensive line could fit BPA in this draft.
 
The Ghost said:
The only selection that still bothers me is Dion Jordan over Lane Johnson. Before that pick was announced I told a room full of Eagles fans that the Dolphins were about to select Lane Johnson and that he was going to be a beast. And that they would end up with Dion Jordan.

Doesn't mean I didn't root hard for Dion Jordan (or Pat White, or Chad Henne, whose selections also equally irked me), I am still a Dolphins homer who will support anyone who dons the jersey.
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I really lobbied for Dion Jordan :) my apologies, I knew he was a mess upstairs but thought he could pull through
 
Feverdream said:
Why?
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because I feel we are in win-now mode. Several big contracts coming up and we need starters at oline/edge this year, especially at the start of the season. The Tindalls and Cams, Iggy etc are not helping us. Later picks we can reach a bit but the early ones have to contribute some imo
 
Mach2 said:
That's a short sighted view, IMO.

When you look a little deeper, not all first rounders are equal. A top 10 pick is seen as having a ceiling/talent much superior to a bottom third selection. You can also assume a top 10 pick is going to a bad team with a lot of holes, where there likely isn't a lot of quality ahead of him.

I'm not sure "Most players picked in the first round are usually instant starters" is accurate to begin with, but I am sure that is not true of players picked in the bottom of the round.
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Agreed. Reality is the about 40% - 50% of first rounder picks are busts much less immediate, impact starters.
 
artdnj said:
because I feel we are in win-now mode. Several big contracts coming up and we need starters at oline/edge this year, especially at the start of the season. The Tindalls and Cams, Iggy etc are not helping us. Later picks we can reach a bit but the early ones have to contribute some imo
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I'm not sure that I believe in 'win-now mode'.

We have a young QB who we are preparing to extend-- probably on a 5 year deal.

It seems to me that if we are signing a QB to carry us through 2030 or so, that this implies you are building for ALL of the years between now and 2030, not just for 2024.

...and if you sacrifice multiple years for now, you are just setting yourself for long term mediocrity.
 
Personally, I would take a great OT, then a great pass rusher, then a great WR in that order. They are all premium positions at areas of need. Unfortunately, I don't expect that we'll get our pick of those three positions. But I wouldn't push need above taking a great player. For example, I wouldn't take a lesser OT (or a poor fit, he'd be a lesser OT for us) over a great pass rusher.

So looking at the board and trying to guess at what other teams will take at what may be available, my short list would go something like this:

Over the moon
Fautanu: I'd say 25% chance he makes it to 21, but I'd run the card up if he did.
Latu: I'd say maybe a 75% chance he makes it to 21, but another guy I see a potential perennial pro bowl player.

Happy
Barton: 75% chance to make it to 21. Another guy with perennial pro bowl potential at multiple positions.

Satisfied we made a good pick
JC Latham: 75% chance to make it to 21. Pro bowl T potential, but probably would redshirt and not play G in the interim.
Murphy: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.
Newton: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.

I wouldn't complain about any of those 6, but there's a clear 3 tiers to my level of excitement.

I'm not as high on Verse, Thomas or Mims, which are the the other ones I hear mentioned here often.

Of the WRs, I see almost zero chance of any of the top 3 making it to 21. I'm not a fan of Brian Thomas and hope he gets picked by somebody like Buffalo trading up ahead of us. My #4 WR is Legette, but I'd rather trade down (which I see as unlikely unless some team covets a QB at our spot), and get him later or pick one of my top 5 and add a WR like Pearsall or Wilson lower.
 
Feverdream said:
I'm not sure that I believe in 'win-now mode'.

We have a young QB who we are preparing to extend-- probably on a 5 year deal.

It seems to me that if we are signing a QB to carry us through 2030 or so, that this implies you are building for ALL of the years between now and 2030, not just for 2024.

...and if you sacrifice multiple years for now, you are just setting yourself for long term mediocrity.
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Agreed, we're not in win now mode.... we're in "Condending for a decade" mode.

With that being said taking WR at #21 only makes sense, if it's a top 10 type WR prospect. And that's Thomas Jr, in any other draft, he's a top 10 pick. This draft is just so loaded at the top of the WR class it's pushing him down.

I really like A. Mitchell from TX too but he doesn't quite reach Thomas level so he out for considering at 21. If we trade back to 30ish range and took Mitchell I'd be cool with it. Same with McConkey, he would be worth it around there too.

If we can't get Thomas Jr. It's Oline and I'm not even looking at other positions.

A Guard prospect who can play right away will work, Barton or JPJ in a trade down.

At Tackle, if we can't get one of the "F"-names, I'm probabaly doing a Grier and gambling on Mims athletic ability.
 
rafael said:
Personally, I would take a great OT, then a great pass rusher, then a great WR in that order. They are all premium positions at areas of need. Unfortunately, I don't expect that we'll get our pick of those three positions. But I wouldn't push need above taking a great player. For example, I wouldn't take a lesser OT (or a poor fit, he'd be a lesser OT for us) over a great pass rusher.

So looking at the board and trying to guess at what other teams will take at what may be available, my short list would go something like this:

Over the moon
Fautanu: I'd say 25% chance he makes it to 21, but I'd run the card up if he did.
Latu: I'd say maybe a 75% chance he makes it to 21, but another guy I see a potential perennial pro bowl player.

Happy
Barton: 75% chance to make it to 21. Another guy with perennial pro bowl potential at multiple positions.

Satisfied we made a good pick
JC Latham: 75% chance to make it to 21. Pro bowl T potential, but probably would redshirt and not play G in the interim.
Murphy: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.
Newton: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.

I wouldn't complain about any of those 6, but there's a clear 3 tiers to my level of excitement.

I'm not as high on Verse, Thomas or Mims, which are the the other ones I hear mentioned here often.

Of the WRs, I see almost zero chance of any of the top 3 making it to 21. I'm not a fan of Brian Thomas and hope he gets picked by somebody like Buffalo trading up ahead of us. My #4 WR is Legette, but I'd rather trade down (which I see as unlikely unless some team covets a QB at our spot), and get him later or pick one of my top 5 and add a WR like Pearsall or Wilson lower.
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My wet dream is Fashanu at #21 and Leggett at #55. I would die.
 
Feverdream said:
I'm not sure that I believe in 'win-now mode'.

We have a young QB who we are preparing to extend-- probably on a 5 year deal.

It seems to me that if we are signing a QB to carry us through 2030 or so, that this implies you are building for ALL of the years between now and 2030, not just for 2024.

...and if you sacrifice multiple years for now, you are just setting yourself for long term mediocrity.
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I agree. Obviously we all want to draft the great player that is an immediate star contributor. But drafting the great player, whether it's this year or next is more important. And I think the "window" thing is a bit of false urgency. With a flexible cap, NFL teams have proven over and over that it's possible to reload or extend windows with key acquisitions or trades. Your championship window in the NFL is really there as long as you have a top 10 QB. Miami has that and should have that for another 8-10 years.
 
rafael said:
Personally, I would take a great OT, then a great pass rusher, then a great WR in that order. They are all premium positions at areas of need. Unfortunately, I don't expect that we'll get our pick of those three positions. But I wouldn't push need above taking a great player. For example, I wouldn't take a lesser OT (or a poor fit, he'd be a lesser OT for us) over a great pass rusher.

So looking at the board and trying to guess at what other teams will take at what may be available, my short list would go something like this:

Over the moon
Fautanu: I'd say 25% chance he makes it to 21, but I'd run the card up if he did.
Latu: I'd say maybe a 75% chance he makes it to 21, but another guy I see a potential perennial pro bowl player.

Happy
Barton: 75% chance to make it to 21. Another guy with perennial pro bowl potential at multiple positions.

Satisfied we made a good pick
JC Latham: 75% chance to make it to 21. Pro bowl T potential, but probably would redshirt and not play G in the interim.
Murphy: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.
Newton: 25%-50% chance. A less premium position, but a great player.

I wouldn't complain about any of those 6, but there's a clear 3 tiers to my level of excitement.

I'm not as high on Verse, Thomas or Mims, which are the the other ones I hear mentioned here often.

Of the WRs, I see almost zero chance of any of the top 3 making it to 21. I'm not a fan of Brian Thomas and hope he gets picked by somebody like Buffalo trading up ahead of us. My #4 WR is Legette, but I'd rather trade down (which I see as unlikely unless some team covets a QB at our spot), and get him later or pick one of my top 5 and add a WR like Pearsall or Wilson lower.
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Great post, although we disagree on alot, I love how you structured this post.

I'd personally be Over the Moon with Latu as well but the neck injury thing worries me a bit.

Where we majorly disagree is on the DTs at 21. I don't see the value in them at 21. At 31, sure, fine, but at 21 Nelson and Murphy simply won't be the best players available.
 
MrChadRico said:
Great post, although we disagree on alot, I love how you structured this post.

I'd personally be Over the Moon with Latu as well but the neck injury thing worries me a bit.

Where we majorly disagree is on the DTs at 21. I don't see the value in them at 21. At 31, sure, fine, but at 21 Nelson and Murphy simply won't be the best players available.
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I've got the Edges rated as:
Turner
Latu
C. Robinson
Verse
D. Robinson

But Latu's neck is a concern.
 
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