The All-Purpose Draft thread....

[Da 'Fins]

Maybe, but TA is a master of technique, hand use, counters, etc.

You can propose that good coaching can help anyone in those areas but there are a whole bunch of guys with long starting careers that never attain the skill level of Armstead. His propensity for injury is his only flaw. Assuming any individual will get to his level of play is a stretch.

Right?! And he doesn’t have short arms.

His arms were measured at 34.08.

I don’t get the short arm thing from Rafe. Unless he got confused with Arik Armstead (who does have undersized arm length). But I’ll let him respond :)

Joe Thomas is the one prime exception of a short armed player who played at all pro caliber. But all those are shocking exceptions at OT (but not Terron Armstead. He had ideal measurables across the board).

 

[JamesWsenior]

I think those old '65 GTOs with the 389 had a little bit more than 159 hp, didn't they? :)

My brothers had some cool old hotrods. Chargers, GTOs and the like. Me I had to settle for 5.0 Mustangs later on. Man I miss the sound of downshifting those, the rumble made me hard. Didn't even need a chick in those days

 

[dolfan91]

 

[rickd13]

No. That’s not what I am saying. I’m saying we need to get the BPA who is going to play. If he’s going to sit and not be able to crack the starting lineup I have questions about BPA. It’s not like we are talking about JJ Watt. You think he’s a superstar player who will just wait in the wings a year and be a 10 year all pro LT? Well then, of course you draft him. But he’s rated 6-10 on many draft boards among OTs. I think there are a handful of players who fall within the 25 to 45 range of talent and I think he’s one of them. So I’d rather draft a player of comparable talent at a different position with a player who’s going to contribute right away and be just as good in terms of talent potential. Or one who can play OG and shift to OT or just an OG who is arguably as good a prospect.

Edit: just to follow up, if Grier can’t find a starter at a position of need who has similar prospects if not better than Guyton at 21 than I am not sure he’s doing his job.

I said I would be all for drafting one of those tackles that can play guard for a year but there’s a high likelihood that none of those guys make it to 21, so I’m not passing on a pure starting tackle just because I need a guard to start right away. There aren’t many positions open for immediate stater on this roster. I guess you can make a case for a WR or DT but I highly doubt Miami is thinking about taking a DT in the first round and WRs that will most likely be available at 21 wouldn’t merit that high a selection. So, what are you left with? Barton, who projects mostly to interior line and fits an immediate need, with the caveat that he would even be ready to play as a rookie, or someone who players a premium position like tackle in Guyton. I’m going with the premium position guy every time.

 

[rickd13]

Sorry, gotta call BS here. I agree with your idea that we shouldn't pass on a better player at 21 for a guard. I don't agree with the idea that we can afford to be patient with an OT we draft in round 1 bc we think he can play LT in a year or two. That's not what Baltimore does.

Almost every Raven first round pick in the last 10 years, Flowers, Hamilton, Linderbaum, Queen,Bateman etc got significant snaps and played a lot as rookies. The Penn State DE Oweh might be the rare exception.

Not many teams are drafting a guy in the FIRST round they can afford to be patient with. You can't wait around anymore and let players develop for a year or two. 14 draft picks in three years without much production is going to hurt this team unless they can turn it around and get 2-3 players from this draft to come in and play well this year.

So, you are advocating drafting a guy just because you “think” he could get snaps as a rookie? No one knows if any of these guys will be huge contributors as a rookie. I’m sure many of them will be, of course, but I’m not passing on a guy in the first round that plays a premium position like tackle for a lesser player or a less valued position like guard or DT just because I think he will get more snaps as a rookie. What kind of team building philosophy is that? That’s the kind of philosophy that will never give you a large window for sustained success.

 

[Dogbone34]

Miami will not even look at a WR until day three...

 

[MrClean]

 

[rickd13]

Maybe they go JPJ, seems odd that intel is tipping the Steelers' hand 10 days in advance of the draft

That would be an awful pick at 21.

 

[rickd13]

Miami will not even look at a WR until day three...

I don’t buy that at all.

 

[Stoobz]

If an elite RT prospect is there, I've got no problem kicking AJax back to the left side, he has plenty of experience over there. I like Jackson, but he's got plenty of availability issues.

He was the iron man last year. Surely you meant Armstead?

 

[MrChadRico]

Fcck his gawd damned 40 time. That means fcck all. His 3 cone, shuttle, VJ, and BJ all combine to indicate a 1st round talent from an athletic perspective. Most of the top OTs are too afraid to do the cone or shuttle because they know they aren't good enough at either for them to help their draft stock.

I was about to post this... thank you

 

[MrChadRico]

So by your logic, Miami should bypass potentially a future starting tackle in the first round to draft a guard because Miami’s most immediate need is a guard. Or to pass on potentially better player for something who can gets snaps this year. That’s how teams fail to have sustained success. Do you pay attention to how a team like Baltimore drafts?

There are some posters that are so out of touch with reality this time of year it's alarming.

 

[Finswatch]

So, you are advocating drafting a guy just because you “think” he could get snaps as a rookie? No one knows if any of these guys will be huge contributors as a rookie. I’m sure many of them will be, of course, but I’m not passing on a guy in the first round that plays a premium position like tackle for a lesser player or a less valued position like guard or DT just because I think he will get more snaps as a rookie. What kind of team building philosophy is that? That’s the kind of philosophy that will never give you a large window for sustained success.

Yes, I am, Take an edge player, a WR or even a DT over a college RT who might someday play LT. I'm waiting for an example of a Raven first rounder who didn't play right away and play well. We're not going to have any success if we keep having 4-6 player drafts where maybe one guy like Achane contributes right away and the rest like Cam Smith and Channing Tindall sit on the bench for 2-3 seasons.
Teams aren't thinking about "long term success" in the salary cap era. You have a decent QB on a rookie contract you need to keep drafting players in that window who can help you win now.

Here's what the better teams in the AFC did in last year's draft
Buffalo
1 Dalton Kincaid
2 O'Cyrus Torrance

Baltimore
1 Zay Flowers

Texans
1 CJ Stroud and Will Anderson
3 Tank Dell

Chiefs
2 Rashee Rice
3 Wanya Morris


And Detroit's awesome draft last year with LaPorta, Branch, Gibbs and Campbell was the catalyst that led them to being one of the NFC's best teams

 

[Etuoo33]

???

No idea where you are getting this. He ran a 4.39 40, a 1.52 split. And had a 3.97 shuttle in his pro day. Which was better than any player at any position at the combine. And the best time I’ve seen from anyone in this draft so far. And his twitchiness is not only demonstrated there but in the field with his quick cuts and separation ability. He's quit quick and twitchy. That’s actually one of his strengths along with route running.

Strength, I’ll give you. And potentially injuries with his frame.

But he’s arguably the most NFL ready receiver in terms of route nuances.

I think he's more a 4.5 play speed guy, now Rickey Pearsall might work.​

​

Scouting Report: Weaknesses​

• Lacks the twitch to consistently create separation; struggles with contested catches.
• Needs improvement in catch-and-run transitions, seems uncomfortable in these situations.
• Lacks the size to consistently win on the outside, better suited for middle-field and return roles.
• Intermediate route fluidity could be improved.
• Needs more nuanced route-running to consistently leverage against DBs.

 

[Finswatch]

There are some posters that are so out of touch with reality this time of year it's alarming.

and there are some posters in here who can't name one player in our draft range who has the ability to become a starting LT in this league and no ability to see that the OL isn't the only unit on this team that needs to get better.