The Guard Position | Page 13 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The Guard Position

zullo1 said:
That's the problem, he doesn't dump it off! After Hill and Waddle every other receiver was non-existent. The "great' pass catching Durham Smythe was 3rd in receptions with only 35 receptions. When Hill and Waddle aren't open, the offense completely dies. Tua doesn't run or use his running backs as an outlet. That has to change, along with better play from the interior line.
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Of course he dumps it off. It doesn't happen that often because Tyreek and/or Waddle are almost always open. If they were covered, Tua would have a few choices: (1) run; (2) take a sack; (3) throw it away; or (4) dump it off. Nos. (1)-(3) happen rarely. Collectively, Tua does (1)-(3) less than any other QB in football. What he does is (4). There just aren't that many times he needs to do it.

When he does, the receivers other than Hill/Waddle have been fine, despite fans' complaints based on bulk numbers.
Here's how their collective numbers compare to a few notable WRs:

Keenan Allen -- 150 tgts, 108 rec, 1243 yds, 8.3 ypt, 58.7 ypt, 58.7% success, 7 TDs
Dolphins' Other Receivers (Incl. TE) -- 149 tgts, 107 rec, 1221 yds, 8.2 ypt, 58.3% success, 6 TDs
Jamarr Chase -- 145 tgts, 100 rec, 1216 yds, 8.3 ypt, 56.6% success, 7 TDs
Stefon Diggs -- 160 tgts, 107 rec, 1183 yds, 7.4 ypt, 55.0% success, 8 TDs
Davante Adams -- 175 tgts, 103 rec, 1144 yds, 6.5 ypt, 48.6% success, 8 TDs

So collectively, the Dolphins' Other Receivers performed comparably, and with comparable efficiency, to Allen, Chase, Diggs and Adams. They were not a problem.

Do you think most teams have "Other Receivers" who are much more efficient than that?
 
Manning said:
How does “a long term replacement for Armstead” have anything to do with 2024? I’ll answer that for you, absolutely nothing but I’m sure you knew that
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When Armstead goes down this season who’s to say The Kid won’t be used then? Get used to the fact that you are not the man in charge…
 
Fineas said:
Of course he dumps it off. It doesn't happen that often because Tyreek and/or Waddle are almost always open. If they were covered, Tua would have a few choices: (1) run; (2) take a sack; (3) throw it away; or (4) dump it off. Nos. (1)-(3) happen rarely. Collectively, Tua does (1)-(3) less than any other QB in football. What he does is (4). There just aren't that many times he needs to do it.

When he does, the receivers other than Hill/Waddle have been fine, despite fans' complaints based on bulk numbers.
Here's how their collective numbers compare to a few notable WRs:

Keenan Allen -- 150 tgts, 108 rec, 1243 yds, 8.3 ypt, 58.7 ypt, 58.7% success, 7 TDs
Dolphins' Other Receivers (Incl. TE) -- 149 tgts, 107 rec, 1221 yds, 8.2 ypt, 58.3% success, 6 TDs
Jamarr Chase -- 145 tgts, 100 rec, 1216 yds, 8.3 ypt, 56.6% success, 7 TDs
Stefon Diggs -- 160 tgts, 107 rec, 1183 yds, 7.4 ypt, 55.0% success, 8 TDs
Davante Adams -- 175 tgts, 103 rec, 1144 yds, 6.5 ypt, 48.6% success, 8 TDs

So collectively, the Dolphins' Other Receivers performed comparably, and with comparable efficiency, to Allen, Chase, Diggs and Adams. They were not a problem.

Do you think most teams have "Other Receivers" who are much more efficient than that?
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Agree to disagree. Tua does not use his backs in the passing game to dump off.
 
zullo1 said:
That's the problem, he doesn't dump it off! After Hill and Waddle every other receiver was non-existent. The "great' pass catching Durham Smythe was 3rd in receptions with only 35 receptions. When Hill and Waddle aren't open, the offense completely dies. Tua doesn't run or use his running backs as an outlet. That has to change, along with better play from the interior line.
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Team inherently play Miami deep first and then closer to the LOS so dump offs were there.

Tom Brady made a living dumping off and killing teams with those 3-7 yard plays.

When they start to come up to stop those plays is where you kill then over top.

But it takes patience to play that way and McD and Tua seem to have very little of that.

Everything needs to be a huge down field play.
 
zullo1 said:
Agree to disagree. Tua does not use his backs in the passing game to dump off.
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So now it's specific to the backs?

Again, there are only those 4 choices if 1 and 2 aren't open. It is clear that Tua doesn't run much. It is also clear that he doesn't get sacked much. Nor does he throw it away much. He throws the ball to someone. What does it need to be a RB? Especially, if the efficiency when throwing to those other guys is Diggs/Adams/Chase/Allen efficiency.
 
ANUFan said:
Team inherently play Miami deep first and then closer to the LOS so dump offs were there.

Tom Brady made a living dumping off and killing teams with those 3-7 yard plays.

When they start to come up to stop those plays is where you kill then over top.

But it takes patience to play that way and McD and Tua seem to have very little of that.

Everything needs to be a huge down field play.
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The deep and intermediate stuff was there too. That's why the dolphins had more deep passing yards than any other team and were 2nd in intermediate passing yards by a small margin. That is what this offense is designed to do -- be aggressive. It certainly has nothing to do with Tua's patience -- we all spent the first two years of his career hearing that all he did was dump off short stuff.
 
MrClean said:
From my friend on a different forum:
"I'm not concerned about the IOL. Wynn, Jones, Cotton and Eichenberg all got significant snaps at OG last year and Wynn and Jones were solid IMO. Eichenberg was bad at OC, which wasn't surprising because he had never played there before, but he was OK at OG. I don't think Cotton is good, but Driscoll has played decently at OG in the past.
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You lost me at “…on a different forum…”
 
ANUFan said:
Team inherently play Miami deep first and then closer to the LOS so dump offs were there.

Tom Brady made a living dumping off and killing teams with those 3-7 yard plays.

When they start to come up to stop those plays is where you kill then over top.

But it takes patience to play that way and McD and Tua seem to have very little of that.

Everything needs to be a huge down field play.
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Exactly.
 
ANUFan said:
Team inherently play Miami deep first and then closer to the LOS so dump offs were there.

Tom Brady made a living dumping off and killing teams with those 3-7 yard plays.

When they start to come up to stop those plays is where you kill then over top.

But it takes patience to play that way and McD and Tua seem to have very little of that.

Everything needs to be a huge down field play.
Click to expand...
Agree. Brady used to piss me off. You'd think he was stopped and then next thing you know he dumps it and gets just enough for the first down...bad memories...
 
Fineas said:
So now it's specific to the backs?

Again, there are only those 4 choices if 1 and 2 aren't open. It is clear that Tua doesn't run much. It is also clear that he doesn't get sacked much. Nor does he throw it away much. He throws the ball to someone. What does it need to be a RB? Especially, if the efficiency when throwing to those other guys is Diggs/Adams/Chase/Allen efficiency.
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I was just making a point that he is not good at fully utilizing his weapons after 1 and 2, in particular the running backs. Now you can quote stats, but I know what I see. Whether it's on him, McD, or the line we can debate the reasons. But it doesn't change the fact that when passing, once 1 and 2 are stopped the offense is pretty much done.
 
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