Are The Dolphins and Tua Further Apart Than People Think?

[Blake the great]

I don't think Tua has earned a big fat contract yet. He's got to play better in the bigger games next season and stay healthy.

Yes he led the league in passing yards but so did Jamies winston a few years ago. Need more from Tua.

 

[andyahs]

Any comment @circumstances ?

I'll take that any day over the other option.

In fact he's made me pay for that.

 

[andyahs]

I don't think Tua has earned a big fat contract yet. He's got to play better in the bigger games next season and stay healthy.

Yes he led the league in passing yards but so did Jamies winston a few years ago. Need more from Tua.

Yea let's keep adding to the list.

Defense doesn't have to play better, offense needs to avoid major injuries and special teams needs better performance but just Tua needs to play better.

 

[JamesWsenior]

Any comment @circumstances ?

He's busy studying the Dolphins arrival at camp today hoping that it's only JPs calf that has suffered by atrophy.

 

[MARINO1384]

A steal? Yeah, QB1 robbing us blind.

Stop being dramatic and get with reality. That’s just what qbs cost. Did you not just watch Christian Wilkins get 27 million. A qb is way more impactful than a DT and I don’t even think Wilkins is that great yet you’re composing about Tua getting not even double what a DT that won’t make an impact on 95% of plays… come on dude…. New flash cap is going up with the addition of an extra game and new tv and streaming deals. This results in the cap growing as does it with contracts. Just wait within the next two years when the nfl adds an 18th regular season game which will be good for an additional 10-20 million more per season on top of the already scheduled 20-30 million increase that’s expected the next 4 years.

 

[djphinfan]

I don't think Tua has earned a big fat contract yet. He's got to play better in the bigger games next season and stay healthy.

Yes he led the league in passing yards but so did Jamies winston a few years ago. Need more from Tua.

Interesting point

 

[Bob512]

Lot of discussion about leverage. Currently the Fins have as much or more leverage than Tua and his agent do. That is actually the reason to get a deal done now. If you allow this to go into his final year……you actually lose leverage and it transfers to the player. The Fins (taking them at their word based on what they have stated publicly) believe Tua is the guy. It isn’t going to get any cheaper than it is right now.

If Tua plays out his 5th year option and has success……you are going to set new pay records with a contract next year. Additionally you run the risk of him testing free agency coming off another good year and will be in a bidding war.

Obviously there are some who don’t care about that and want to have another bite of the apple by seeing another season before a 2nd contract. Be careful, that could be a very expensive bite. The Fins seem to believe they have their QB in Tua, and if so, why allow any of this to happen? Comments about good management by the Fins seem to ignore this side of the consequences

It is also ridiculous to think the Fins shouldn’t pay fair market value or Tua should take a discount because he likes Florida. I would love to recruit against that mentality in business. Again, the Fins believe he is the man, so you treat him like he is the man. There are a thousand ways to structure a contract to make it say whatever you want it to. Patrick Mahomes cap hit this year will be $37M and next year it is $66M. He signed a 10 year $450M contract……Herbert’s cap hit this year is $19M but in a couple of years it jumps to $60M and then $70M….his deal is for $52M per year.

Be creative, there are bunch of different ways to get a market value deal done that sets us up for the next couple of years

 

[circumstances]

Any comment @circumstances ?

Pics or it didn't happen

 

[MrChadRico]

There was a poster on here who said we shouldn't pay Tua until he won a Super Bowl.

If I said that I was drunk

 

[phinsforlife]

So you actually like Tua as long as he is cheaper than Allen, Lamar or Herbert? You know those big mobile type QBs some are always on about... especially the ones with rings.

i think you missed my point. the point was it is the dolphins job to sign him for the least amount possible. it is not their job to be charitable. if he can be signed for x, there is no reason to pay him 1.5x. they should not pay him a penny over his market value. his market value is what the best offer would be from any other team if tua were to become a free agent.

 

[Highzenga]

By playing ''well'' do you mean a winning record,playoff win,superbowl win, superbowl loss?

The bare minimum should be to win a playoff game. I expect this team to reach the afc title game. If we can get a top 2 seed, I think that is a realistic, attainable goal.

 

[phinsforlife]

Lol...... He, and others, are not being honest in their arguments, IMO. They pound the table for a "cheap deal", when in reality that is a flawed argument.

If one thinks Tua is good enough to compete for Championships, then what difference does a few mil make? If one doesn't think that is the case, why resign him at all?

I understand wanting the team to get the best deal they can, but I think that's just blowing smoke. What they really want is a different QB, and are arguing the contract numbers as a justification.

The fact is, and knowledgeable ppl know this, that a 48m per contract or a 55m per contract are just hype numbers for a press release. Both could have the same bottom line as far as term and guarantees. At least close enough as to make no appreciable difference. Even Omar is smart enough to realize PR contract numbers are not real. The substance in the details and structure, not the advertisement.

i am learning things every day. now people that have a different view than yours are not being honest in their arguments and making flawed arguments or whatever other conspiracy theory there is? in that vein, "what difference does a few $mm make" is a flawed and dishonest argument. first of all you can incrementalize yourself to death. do the same thing with everyone, a few million dollars here, and a few million dollars there, adds up, and pretty soon you are $50mm over the salary cap and blowing some of your best players off the roster. second of all, we don't even know if the answer is a few $mm. for all we know, the best offer another team would give tua is $35mm per year. the difference between $35mm and $55mm is a huge number. to be clear, i am not claiming to know what the next best deal tua would get is, but either do you. so to claim the difference is only a few $mm is not an honest argument, and is terribly flawed. using your logic, might as well just give him $100mm a year, whats the diff? my lord it is interminable around here. you cannot even make a reasonable point without someone having a nutty and claiming you make dishonest points, as opposed to just accepting the fact that people disagree and think about it differently. the whole point i was making is if the dolphins are going to sign him, their job is to sign him to the best deal possible for the team, as opposed to being charitable. i have no idea why that is such a controversial statement that gives rise to the conspiracy theories and all the other nonsense.

 

[phinsforlife]

Lot of discussion about leverage. Currently the Fins have as much or more leverage than Tua and his agent do. That is actually the reason to get a deal done now. If you allow this to go into his final year……you actually lose leverage and it transfers to the player. The Fins (taking them at their word based on what they have stated publicly) believe Tua is the guy. It isn’t going to get any cheaper than it is right now.

If Tua plays out his 5th year option and has success……you are going to set new pay records with a contract next year. Additionally you run the risk of him testing free agency coming off another good year and will be in a bidding war.

Obviously there are some who don’t care about that and want to have another bite of the apple by seeing another season before a 2nd contract. Be careful, that could be a very expensive bite. The Fins seem to believe they have their QB in Tua, and if so, why allow any of this to happen? Comments about good management by the Fins seem to ignore this side of the consequences

It is also ridiculous to think the Fins shouldn’t pay fair market value or Tua should take a discount because he likes Florida. I would love to recruit against that mentality in business. Again, the Fins believe he is the man, so you treat him like he is the man. There are a thousand ways to structure a contract to make it say whatever you want it to. Patrick Mahomes cap hit this year will be $37M and next year it is $66M. He signed a 10 year $450M contract……Herbert’s cap hit this year is $19M but in a couple of years it jumps to $60M and then $70M….his deal is for $52M per year.

Be creative, there are bunch of different ways to get a market value deal done that sets us up for the next couple of years

yes, but you are missing the point. fair market value is a function of what the next best offer would be for tua. if you think there are a bunch of teams lining up to give him 5 years and $55mm per year, then yup, that is his market value. if you think the best deal he would fetch from someone else is $35mm per year, then that is his market value.

 

[Bob512]

yes, but you are missing the point. fair market value is a function of what the next best offer would be for tua. if you think there are a bunch of teams lining up to give him 5 years and $55mm per year, then yup, that is his market value. if you think the best deal he would fetch from someone else is $35mm per year, then that is his market value.

Obviously, I don’t agree with this.

What you are missing is it isn’t a fair market. Tua is under contract and while he is, you will get zero teams lining up to do anything. In the context of the NFL, value is determined by skill and performance. You can argue those factors, but arguing that value should be based on other teams offers that will never be coming to begin with is absurd

Do you really think the Chargers or the Bengals allowed Herbert or Burrows to entertain or receive offers to determine their value before they were given an extension? You know better than that……

 

[Blake the great]

Yea let's keep adding to the list.

Defense doesn't have to play better, offense needs to avoid major injuries and special teams needs better performance but just Tua needs to play better.

This topic is about Tua....not the defense, not the special teams and not the other injuries.....this thread is about Tua. Tua played his worse games in the biggest moments and he threw alot of ints. He needs to do better not forcing passes.