Tunsil Trade Revisited | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tunsil Trade Revisited

Ooh playoff appearances. Does Miami hang that in their ring of honor? Thank god the playoffs extended to a seventh seed or else miami would have a few less playoff appearances as that's all they can get. That's the problem with this franchise nowadays: Settling with mediocrity. It's trickled down to the fanbase as well. That stuff, just making the playoffs 5 times in 2+ decades is stuff franchises like Cincinnati used to call success and Miami with Shula would deem pathetic. But even they now have higher standards than that. This stretch since 2000 for Miami would not fly in Baltimore or Green Bay or San Francisco. Grier would have been canned with those franchises decades ago. You should have high expectations than that.
Ooh rebuilding, since you broached the topic!! The most stable franchises in the entire NFL: New England, Pittsburg, San Fran, Dallas, KC all have one thing in common, they don't run through GMs / head coaches and QBs like Indian food runs through a bowel tract after a night of bourbon and street tacos are piled on top of it.

Since 2000 (excludes injuries to starting QBs):

New England: 1 GM / 1 HC / 3 QBs.
Pittsburg: 2 GM / 2 HC / 4 QBs.
San Fran: 4 GM / 6 HC / 9 QBs (more on this in a bit)
Dallas: 1 GM / 5 HC / 6 QBs
KC: 4 GM / 6 HC / 7 QBs

Now let's contrast that to Miami.

Miami: 9 GM / 12 HC / 12 QBs.

The only team remotely going down that "rebuild all the time" rabbit hole was San Fran about 10 years ago (right after Harbaugh ****ed them). They started to look like they would never pull out of the death spiral but they got stabilized by Shanahan and Lynch.

I mean you brought up Cincy so 1 GM / 3 HC / 5 QBs. :shrug:
 
Those teams front offices don’t hire coaches like Cam Cameron and Joe Filbin. Chris Grier might not have a hand in those hires but he did with Brian Flores. Just saying.
 
I think Flores really hurt us in a few ways. One he was a good coach who was building a tough team but he couldn't get along with anyone so we had to move on.

Second: He cost us those draft picks. That stuff happens a lot and teams tamper but they hammered us with losing the first and third. That makes trading the other picks for chubb harder to digest since we lost those picks.

Thirdly. I think the franchise felt pressure to help tua succeed after his first two years with Flores. They were so unstable and got so much media attention from benching him, shoulda drafted matt jones, wanting to trade him for Watson. It was never ending. I never seen so much negative media attention after a qb first two years. Especially when he was decent and had a winning record and decent numbers. He wasn't Ryan Leaf or Jamar Russel bad.

I think when Hill became free from the chiefs that the team jumped on it so that they could support tua and show that he could play in this league because the narrative was he was a bust. Which I don't think he was. His numbers were better in his first two years then maybe other qbs that didn't get the negative media attention. But they wanted to change the narrative and traded for Hill. Which is fine. But now you are limiting draft capital for several years because of the trades for Hill and tampering. If he was just a regular third year qb without all the negative attention they might have continued building slowly with draft capital and cap space . Just like they started around 2020.

#1) Flores wasn’t the one that tampered.

#2) Flores lawsuit only reported the first Brady tampering on the boat before he signed with Bucs. NFL’s investigation uncovered the second Brady tampering and also with Payton. NFL cited the owner’s repetitive and direct involvement as to the harsh penalty and his personal suspension from team activities.

The Era of Dysfunction starts at the top in Miami.
 
#1) Flores wasn’t the one that tampered.

#2) Flores lawsuit only reported the first Brady tampering on the boat before he signed with Bucs. NFL’s investigation uncovered the second Brady tampering and also with Payton. NFL cited the owner’s repetitive and direct involvement as to the harsh penalty and his personal suspension from team activities.

The Era of Dysfunction starts at the top in Miami.
No, but he was the one that brought it to light while simultaneously suing the NFL over "discrimination". The NFL was forced to punish someone for something to please the public, and us tampering with Brady just happened to be that something. Had Flores not done that, the NFL would have turned a blind eye to it like they typically always do.
 
No, but he was the one that brought it to light while simultaneously suing the NFL over "discrimination". The NFL was forced to punish someone for something to please the public, and us tampering with Brady just happened to be that something. Had Flores not done that, the NFL would have turned a blind eye to it like they typically always do.

Even if you see tampering as business as usual in the NFL -- and I'm pretty sure most people do -- you still have to blame Stephen Ross for getting himself exposed by involving someone like Brian Flores who evidently wasn't on board with it and made the whole thing public.

Again, if you're planning to tank that's one thing -- the fans generally went along with it -- but why hire a HC who's not on board?

If you're planning to tamper -- and most fans probably don't care how the sausage is made -- that's one thing, but why needlessly involve any party who's going to baulk at the idea and turn you in?

I'm not even clear on why Ross believed his HC needed to be involved in any of the tampering. I don't agree that an employer should assume some employee is willing to go along with nefarious practices even if those practices have precedent and aren't themselves out-and-out evil.

It seems like Ross could just march Tom Brady in the front doors one day and tell Brian Flores, 'you now have a new QB.'

It just makes the Dolphins look so dysfunctional. They can't win. They apparently can't even lose correctly. They can't arrange back-room deals correctly.

We can't compare ourselves to the more stable franchises until we start operating like them--and that begins with finding leadership that actually takes risks. If you believe in a HC then let that HC design the team he wants and let him tell you what QB he wants. If you believe in a certain QB then find a HC who'll go along with that plan. If you want to tamper, make sure everyone's in agreement. Don't expose the illegal activity to those who might turn you in.

It just doesn't seem that hard and yet the Dolphins screw things up by constantly trying to have their cake and eat it to. They can't figure out whether to prioritize the HC, the QB, the agreement of everyone, the priorities of the Owner, the home-grown talent or the premium splash waiting to be made in FA.

I think we're all beginning to acknowledge that maybe it wasn't all the HCs that've come and gone from Tony Sparano, Joe Philbin, Dan Campbell, Adam Gase and Brian Flores who were all 'unprepared to lead' and maybe it was partly the employer as well.

There's one constant in all the turnover and that's Stephen Ross entering the picture in early 2008.

The Dolphins went 1-15 in 2007 in a season where the franchise bottomed out as historically bad. The fact these guys convinced themselves to (purposefully) do it again a decade later kind of says everything, doesn't it?
 
Last edited:
"lol how is Houston how closer to a SB than Miami is?"

They drafted the right QB. Guy is the goods. That's all that matters. End.
 
"lol how is Houston how closer to a SB than Miami is?"

They drafted the right QB. Guy is the goods. That's all that matters. End.
I mean I don't wanna crown Stroud after one year but I definitely see "it" with him whereas someone like Herbert I was never sold on and people still hyping him for rookie numbers and Lawrence who doesn't seem to have "it" to me.
 
I mean I don't wanna crown Stroud after one year but I definitely see "it" with him whereas someone like Herbert I was never sold on and people still hyping him for rookie numbers and Lawrence who doesn't seem to have "it" to me.

My attitude is that QBs getting 2nd contracts with their original team should be VERY rare in the NFL.

Average is everywhere and greatness is a hidden gem. You gotta keep taking shots on the position until you have someone who shows out early & often.
 
#1) Flores wasn’t the one that tampered.

#2) Flores lawsuit only reported the first Brady tampering on the boat before he signed with Bucs. NFL’s investigation uncovered the second Brady tampering and also with Payton. NFL cited the owner’s repetitive and direct involvement as to the harsh penalty and his personal suspension from team activities.

The Era of Dysfunction starts at the top in Miami.
And you believe that? lol
 
#1) Flores wasn’t the one that tampered.

#2) Flores lawsuit only reported the first Brady tampering on the boat before he signed with Bucs. NFL’s investigation uncovered the second Brady tampering and also with Payton. NFL cited the owner’s repetitive and direct involvement as to the harsh penalty and his personal suspension from team activities.

The Era of Dysfunction starts at the top in Miami.
You missed the point of number 3 being most important.

Flores bitched and caused so much noise about tua that the dolphins were desperate to prove he wasn't a bust so they rushed the rebuild and gave up money and assets for hill. Everything they were not doing before. If you like like tua now or don't it doesn't matter.

His first two years had so much noise because Flores was pissed we drafted him, played him when he wasn't healthy, wanted to trade him. This created a toxic environment that when Flores left miami felt the need to get a star like Hill to help Tua succeed. Because the narrative was tua couldn't play and tua confidence was shot.

Trading for a guy like Hill was totally against the plan they had before. Before they were getting capital and money then they switch gears and give up money and picks because Tua was crushed by Flores and the negative media shitstorm. How anybody doesn't see this and realize this affected the plan of rebuilding is crazy.

And I actually think Flores could coach and Tua was decent his first two years. But Flores couldn't get along with anyone, couldn't coach offense, and created a huge tua narrative by letting the media know he wanted watson and not Tua. Tua is our qb.. Tua is our qb tua is our qb. That is all he would say. Then he would let the media and league know he wanted Watson and not tua.

It created a mess when he was gone. Miami felt like they needed to support tua and show he could play so in comes the cheeteh. There goes the picks and and plan to build through the draft. That is how the plan got changed and messed up. They didn't stick to it because they felt they had to show Tua was the guy because Flores ****ed up the entire thing for two years.
 
I mean I don't wanna crown Stroud after one year but I definitely see "it" with him whereas someone like Herbert I was never sold on and people still hyping him for rookie numbers and Lawrence who doesn't seem to have "it" to me.
Yeah, a lot of these great QBs are great out of the gate, and don't need everything perfect or even great around them. Burrow was this way too.

Herbert and Lawrence, the tools are great enough that you keep hoping for that upside, but might not ever happen.
 
Was the trade worth it? Absolutely.

Should you build your team around the WR position? Absolutely not.

Should you build your team with expensive veterans that you gave up high draft picks for? Absolutely not.
And some fans still defend Grier!🤦🏻‍♂️
 
Back
Top Bottom